| Lenona321 |
From Robbie Trent's 1944 kids' novel "Susan" (which takes place just before
1900, I think):
"....Mother fitted a crust into her pie pan, dusted flour over the bottom,
added a thick sprinkling of sugar, and generous lumps of butter. Last of all
she filled the crust almost to the top with rich cream, dotted it with nutmeg,
and put it in the oven."
I have little experience with pies, but something seems wrong here. A custard
pie is one thing, but wouldn't whipped cream just go flat in the oven? Not to
mention that the sugar wouldn't mix in by itself. Of course, those were the
days when some people would make sandwiches with nothing but a spreading of
butter on the bread.
So, how would you bake this, with only one or two more ingredients? Or did she
mean a custard pie?
Lenona.
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| Wayne |
lenona321@aol.com (Lenona321) wrote in
news:20040705141055.19433.00000830@mb-m17.aol.com:
> From Robbie Trent's 1944 kids' novel "Susan" (which takes place just
> before 1900, I think):
>
> "....Mother fitted a crust into her pie pan, dusted flour over the
> bottom, added a thick sprinkling of sugar, and generous lumps of
> butter. Last of all she filled the crust almost to the top with rich
> cream, dotted it with nutmeg, and put it in the oven."
>
> I have little experience with pies, but something seems wrong here. A
> custard pie is one thing, but wouldn't whipped cream just go flat in
> the oven? Not to mention that the sugar wouldn't mix in by itself. Of
> course, those were the days when some people would make sandwiches
> with nothing but a spreading of butter on the bread.
>
> So, how would you bake this, with only one or two more ingredients? Or
> did she mean a custard pie?
>
> Lenona.
>
No, I'm sure she meant "Sugar Pie". These are not too common today, but
they are more commonly seen in Amish country and also made by many
country/farm cooks where, in both areas, really old-fashioned recipes
prevail.
Two things... Very rich cream will thicken when baked. Also, that
"dusting" of flour would more likely have been about 2-3 tablespoons,
enough of a thickener when combined with the remaining ingredients.
Sugar Pie is perhaps more frequently made with brown sugar, although
granulated sugar is not uncommon and my sugar of preference for such a
pie.
It is not a custard pie in the most traditional sense, due to the lack of
eggs.
I haven't made one in years, but they really are delicious. They are
also terribly rich and sweet, which reflects more the taste of a bygone
era.
If you want to make one, try this...
In an partially baked 8-inch pie shell combine 1-1/2 cups sugar, 3
tablespoons all-purpose flour, and a pinch of salt. Spread evenly, then
distribute over that 3 ounces unsalted butter cut in slices. Pour in
enough heavy whipping cream (do not whip) to fill pan. Bake in a 425°F.
oven for 15 minutes, then reduce heat to 350°F. and continue baking an
addition 30 minutes or until filling is firm. Check for doneness by
gently shaking pan - the filling should just barely shimmer, or insert a
silver knife 2/3 way toward center of pie. It should come out clean.
Note: All ingredients, including cream, should be at room temperature
before assembling. If the top of the pie seems to be browning too
quickly, you may need to tent it with foil.
HTH
--
Wayne in Phoenix
If there's a nit to pick, some nitwit will pick it.
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| Mark Thorson |
Lenona321 wrote:
> "....Mother fitted a crust into her pie pan, dusted flour over the bottom,
> added a thick sprinkling of sugar, and generous lumps of butter. Last of all
> she filled the crust almost to the top with rich cream, dotted it with nutmeg,
> and put it in the oven."
>
> I have little experience with pies, but something seems wrong here. A custard
> pie is one thing, but wouldn't whipped cream just go flat in the oven?
Where does it say _whipped_ cream? It says _rich_ cream.
> Not to mention that the sugar wouldn't mix in by itself.
It doesn't appear to be intended to. The sugar
is sprinkled on the crust, followed by lumps
of butter. The intent appears to be form a thin
rich sweet layer between the filling and the
crust.
> Of course, those were the
> days when some people would make sandwiches with nothing
> but a spreading of butter on the bread.
>
> So, how would you bake this, with only one or two more ingredients?
> Or did she mean a custard pie?
The only way to resolve this is to attempt to duplicate
the recipe as written. Until you try it, you don't know
what will happen. Maybe it will set up into a solid
cream pie.
If there is a missing ingredient here, it might be Junket.
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| Bob (this one) |
Lenona321 wrote:
> From Robbie Trent's 1944 kids' novel "Susan" (which takes place
> just before 1900, I think):
>
> "....Mother fitted a crust into her pie pan, dusted flour over the
> bottom, added a thick sprinkling of sugar, and generous lumps of
> butter. Last of all she filled the crust almost to the top with
> rich cream, dotted it with nutmeg, and put it in the oven."
>
> I have little experience with pies,
Yes, well...
> but something seems wrong here. A custard pie is one thing, but
> wouldn't whipped cream just go flat in the oven?
Where does it say whipped? It's just cream poured in.
> Not to mention that the sugar wouldn't mix in by itself.
Sure it would. Convection currents would do it. Same with the flour
and butter. It would hydrate, disperse and thicken as would any roux
or beurre manie.
> Of course, those were the days when some people would make
> sandwiches with nothing but a spreading of butter on the bread.
Right.
> So, how would you bake this, with only one or two more ingredients?
Exactly as stated.
> Or did she mean a custard pie?
Custards by definition are made with eggs. There's an even more frugal
version of this pie made with sugar, flour butter and water or juice,
usually called "Poor Man's Pie" that was popular during the Great
Depression. It's actually rather good. The fancier versions put a
tablespoon or two of some jam or jelly in it. We made them in one of
my restaurants and put a single dried apricot on top of each portion.
Pretty.
The texture is hard to explain, but is a close enough kin to the
cheese in baked Danish pastries for that to be a useful, if
inexact, analogy. Denser and drier than custard with, obviously, none
of the egginess.
Pastorio
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| kilikini |
"Bob (this one)" <Bob@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:10ejf25i7i2lh0a@corp.supernews.com...
> Lenona321 wrote:
>
> > From Robbie Trent's 1944 kids' novel "Susan" (which takes place
> > just before 1900, I think):
> >
> > "....Mother fitted a crust into her pie pan, dusted flour over the
> > bottom, added a thick sprinkling of sugar, and generous lumps of
> > butter. Last of all she filled the crust almost to the top with
> > rich cream, dotted it with nutmeg, and put it in the oven."
> >
What if you would make this now, but with a little vanilla in the mix?
Would it come out like a vanilla pudding pie almost, do you think?
kili
--
"Beer, the cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems." - - Homer
Simpson
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| Wayne |
"kilikini" <kilikini1@NOSPAMhotmail.com> wrote in news:K2jGc.23303
$SO5.12110@twister.socal.rr.com:
> "Bob (this one)" <Bob@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:10ejf25i7i2lh0a@corp.supernews.com...
>> Lenona321 wrote:
>>
>> > From Robbie Trent's 1944 kids' novel "Susan" (which takes place
>> > just before 1900, I think):
>> >
>> > "....Mother fitted a crust into her pie pan, dusted flour over the
>> > bottom, added a thick sprinkling of sugar, and generous lumps of
>> > butter. Last of all she filled the crust almost to the top with
>> > rich cream, dotted it with nutmeg, and put it in the oven."
>> >
>
>
> What if you would make this now, but with a little vanilla in the mix?
> Would it come out like a vanilla pudding pie almost, do you think?
>
> kili
You could add vanilla and the flavor might be similar. The texture,
however, would be different than a pudding filling.
--
Wayne in Phoenix
If there's a nit to pick, some nitwit will pick it.
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| kilikini |
"Wayne" <waynebw@att.net> wrote in message
news:Xns951D8C9512F98waynebw@204.127.36.1...
> "kilikini" <kilikini1@NOSPAMhotmail.com> wrote in news:K2jGc.23303
> $SO5.12110@twister.socal.rr.com:
>
> > "Bob (this one)" <Bob@nospam.com> wrote in message
> > news:10ejf25i7i2lh0a@corp.supernews.com...
> >> Lenona321 wrote:
> >>
> >> > From Robbie Trent's 1944 kids' novel "Susan" (which takes place
> >> > just before 1900, I think):
> >> >
> >> > "....Mother fitted a crust into her pie pan, dusted flour over the
> >> > bottom, added a thick sprinkling of sugar, and generous lumps of
> >> > butter. Last of all she filled the crust almost to the top with
> >> > rich cream, dotted it with nutmeg, and put it in the oven."
> >> >
> >
> >
> > What if you would make this now, but with a little vanilla in the mix?
> > Would it come out like a vanilla pudding pie almost, do you think?
> >
> > kili
>
> You could add vanilla and the flavor might be similar. The texture,
> however, would be different than a pudding filling.
>
> --
> Wayne in Phoenix
>
> If there's a nit to pick, some nitwit will pick it.
Leave it to me to try to change an old goodie. :~) But, I think vanilla
would work to flavor this in this case.
kili
--
"Beer, the cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems." - - Homer
Simpson
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| Wayne |
"kilikini" <kilikini1@NOSPAMhotmail.com> wrote in
news:DbjGc.23306$SO5.21955@twister.socal.rr.com:
> "Wayne" <waynebw@att.net> wrote in message
> news:Xns951D8C9512F98waynebw@204.127.36.1...
>> "kilikini" <kilikini1@NOSPAMhotmail.com> wrote in news:K2jGc.23303
>> $SO5.12110@twister.socal.rr.com:
>>
>> > "Bob (this one)" <Bob@nospam.com> wrote in message
>> > news:10ejf25i7i2lh0a@corp.supernews.com...
>> >> Lenona321 wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > From Robbie Trent's 1944 kids' novel "Susan" (which takes place
>> >> > just before 1900, I think):
>> >> >
>> >> > "....Mother fitted a crust into her pie pan, dusted flour over
>> >> > the bottom, added a thick sprinkling of sugar, and generous
>> >> > lumps of butter. Last of all she filled the crust almost to the
>> >> > top with rich cream, dotted it with nutmeg, and put it in the
>> >> > oven."
>> >> >
>> >
>> >
>> > What if you would make this now, but with a little vanilla in the
>> > mix? Would it come out like a vanilla pudding pie almost, do you
>> > think?
>> >
>> > kili
>>
>> You could add vanilla and the flavor might be similar. The texture,
>> however, would be different than a pudding filling.
>>
>> --
>> Wayne in Phoenix
>>
>> If there's a nit to pick, some nitwit will pick it.
>
> Leave it to me to try to change an old goodie. :~) But, I think
> vanilla would work to flavor this in this case.
>
> kili
I'm sure it would be good. The basic pie reminds me, though, of an
English bread and butter pudding...just buttered slices of bread (perhaps
a few raisins), and an unflavored custard of sugar, eggs, and rich milk
or cream. I think the idea is for the flavor of butter and cream to
prevail. Obviously, one could flavor either the pie or pudding with any
extract.
--
Wayne in Phoenix
If there's a nit to pick, some nitwit will pick it.
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| Bob (this one) |
Wayne wrote:
> "kilikini" <kilikini1@NOSPAMhotmail.com> wrote in
> news:DbjGc.23306$SO5.21955@twister.socal.rr.com:
>
>>"Wayne" <waynebw@att.net> wrote in message
>>news:Xns951D8C9512F98waynebw@204.127.36.1...
>>
>>>"kilikini" <kilikini1@NOSPAMhotmail.com> wrote in news:K2jGc.23303
>>>$SO5.12110@twister.socal.rr.com:
>>>
>>>>>Lenona321 wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>From Robbie Trent's 1944 kids' novel "Susan" (which takes place
>>>>>>just before 1900, I think):
>>>>>>
>>>>>>"....Mother fitted a crust into her pie pan, dusted flour over
>>>>>>the bottom, added a thick sprinkling of sugar, and generous
>>>>>>lumps of butter. Last of all she filled the crust almost to the
>>>>>>top with rich cream, dotted it with nutmeg, and put it in the
>>>>>>oven."
>>>>>>
>>>>What if you would make this now, but with a little vanilla in the
>>>>mix? Would it come out like a vanilla pudding pie almost, do you
>>>>think?
>>>
>>>You could add vanilla and the flavor might be similar. The texture,
>>>however, would be different than a pudding filling.
>>>
>>Leave it to me to try to change an old goodie. :~) But, I think
>>vanilla would work to flavor this in this case.
It works just fine. As do almond and lemon extracts (separately).
> I'm sure it would be good. The basic pie reminds me, though, of an
> English bread and butter pudding...just buttered slices of bread (perhaps
> a few raisins), and an unflavored custard of sugar, eggs, and rich milk
> or cream. I think the idea is for the flavor of butter and cream to
> prevail. Obviously, one could flavor either the pie or pudding with any
> extract.
As you note, the pie is drastically different than a bread pudding,
though. Texture is very different and flavors would be as well, if
only for the raisins, eggs and bread.
The pie filling is uniform in texture, dense and rich to the bite.
Pastorio
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| Arri London |
Lenona321 wrote:
>
> From Robbie Trent's 1944 kids' novel "Susan" (which takes place just before
> 1900, I think):
>
> "....Mother fitted a crust into her pie pan, dusted flour over the bottom,
> added a thick sprinkling of sugar, and generous lumps of butter. Last of all
> she filled the crust almost to the top with rich cream, dotted it with nutmeg,
> and put it in the oven."
>
> I have little experience with pies, but something seems wrong here. A custard
> pie is one thing, but wouldn't whipped cream just go flat in the oven?
There isn't any whipped cream mentioned above.
>Not to
> mention that the sugar wouldn't mix in by itself.
That may be the point of the recipe.
>Of course, those were the
> days when some people would make sandwiches with nothing but a spreading of
> butter on the bread.
Yes... is there something wrong with that? Great crusty bread and good
cultured butter makes a great sandwich.
>
> So, how would you bake this, with only one or two more ingredients? Or did she
> mean a custard pie?
>
> Lenona.
I'd bake it the way it is described. If the results were unpleasant,
*then* the tinkering would begin.
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| zxcvbob |
Bob (this one) wrote:
>
> Custards by definition are made with eggs. There's an even more frugal
> version of this pie made with sugar, flour butter and water or juice,
> usually called "Poor Man's Pie" that was popular during the Great
> Depression. It's actually rather good. The fancier versions put a
> tablespoon or two of some jam or jelly in it. We made them in one of my
> restaurants and put a single dried apricot on top of each portion. Pretty.
>
> The texture is hard to explain, but is a close enough kin to the
> cheese in baked Danish pastries for that to be a useful, if
> inexact, analogy. Denser and drier than custard with, obviously, none of
> the egginess.
>
> Pastorio
>
I'm too poor to use butter; will it work with margarine? And should I
use water or skim milk? Thanks!
Best regards,
Bob
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| Wayne |
"Bob (this one)" <Bob@nospam.com> wrote in
news:10ejhnron08s26e@corp.supernews.com:
> As you note, the pie is drastically different than a bread pudding,
> though. Texture is very different and flavors would be as well, if
> only for the raisins, eggs and bread.
Certainly that's true. I only brought up the bread and butter pudding to
point out that both the pudding and the pie are both deliberately simple,
and that an additional flavoring would not normally be used for that
reason.
Just as there is considerable difference between "bread and butter
pudding" and "bread pudding", the latter more often being embellished
with other items and flavors.
> The pie filling is uniform in texture, dense and rich to the bite.
>
> Pastorio
>
>
--
Wayne in Phoenix
If there's a nit to pick, some nitwit will pick it.
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| Wayne |
zxcvbob <zxcvbob@charter.net> wrote in
news:2ku4m4F5scnfU1@uni-berlin.de:
> Bob (this one) wrote:
>>
>> Custards by definition are made with eggs. There's an even more
>> frugal version of this pie made with sugar, flour butter and water or
>> juice, usually called "Poor Man's Pie" that was popular during the
>> Great Depression. It's actually rather good. The fancier versions put
>> a tablespoon or two of some jam or jelly in it. We made them in one
>> of my restaurants and put a single dried apricot on top of each
>> portion. Pretty.
>>
>> The texture is hard to explain, but is a close enough kin to the
>> cheese in baked Danish pastries for that to be a useful, if
>> inexact, analogy. Denser and drier than custard with, obviously, none
>> of the egginess.
>>
>> Pastorio
>>
>
> I'm too poor to use butter; will it work with margarine? And should I
> use water or skim milk? Thanks!
>
> Best regards,
> Bob
>
I'm sure that the results would be quite disappointing. Butter and cream
behave much differently in baking (and in most other things) than do
margarine and water or skim milk. I also doubt that the mixture would
even thicken properly. Sorry... Save up for the butter and cream. <G>
--
Wayne in Phoenix
If there's a nit to pick, some nitwit will pick it.
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| Bob (this one) |
zxcvbob wrote:
> Bob (this one) wrote:
>
>> Custards by definition are made with eggs. There's an even more frugal
>> version of this pie made with sugar, flour, butter and water or juice,
>> usually called "Poor Man's Pie" that was popular during the Great
>> Depression. It's actually rather good. The fancier versions put a
>> tablespoon or two of some jam or jelly in it. We made them in one of
>> my restaurants and put a single dried apricot on top of each portion.
>> Pretty.
>>
>> The texture is hard to explain, but is a close enough kin to the
>> cheese in baked Danish pastries for that to be a useful, if
>> inexact, analogy. Denser and drier than custard with, obviously, none
>> of the egginess.
>>
>> Pastorio
>>
> I'm too poor to use butter; will it work with margarine?
It will work, chemically and physically, but not culinarily. Don't
need much butter. Just swipe a few of those little plastic packets
from the company cafeteria. Or a neighbor's burger/hotdog roast.
They'll never miss it.
> And should I use water or skim milk?
I can hardly imagine what the pie made with margarine and water would
taste like. I suspect it would give me a Great Depression.
Thanks!
Listen. We're taking up a collection to buy you a pound of butter.
Could you throw in maybe 4 bucks to help out the committee?
As always, it's positively indemnifying to talk with you. I hope that
in the future we can emulate together, but in different time zones
and different elasticities.
And, you're welcome. <g>
Pastorio (now pull the other leg...)
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| cathy |
On 05 Jul 2004 18:10:55 GMT, lenona321@aol.com (Lenona321) wrote:
>From Robbie Trent's 1944 kids' novel "Susan" (which takes place just before
>1900, I think):
>
>"....Mother fitted a crust into her pie pan, dusted flour over the bottom,
>added a thick sprinkling of sugar, and generous lumps of butter. Last of all
>she filled the crust almost to the top with rich cream, dotted it with nutmeg,
>and put it in the oven."
>
>I have little experience with pies, but something seems wrong here. A custard
>pie is one thing, but wouldn't whipped cream just go flat in the oven? Not to
>mention that the sugar wouldn't mix in by itself. Of course, those were the
>days when some people would make sandwiches with nothing but a spreading of
>butter on the bread.
>
>So, how would you bake this, with only one or two more ingredients? Or did she
>mean a custard pie?
>
>Lenona.
I wonder if today's pasturized cream would prevent this pie from
setting properly? The cream of 1900 is not the same kind of cream we
get today.
This reminds me of the old way of making clotted cream - pour fresh
cream in a shallow pan and set it at the back of your cooktop for
about 24 hours, skimming off the crust as it forms. That crust is your
clotted cream (an AGA is perfect for this). I've heard that you can't
make it this way today because the already pasturized cream won't form
the proper kind of crust.
Cathy
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| Wayne |
cathy <cwells21@NOSPAMhotmail.com> wrote in
news:j7hle0hgnttgi3ouvdk0oqln5g055b3m2v@4ax.com:
> On 05 Jul 2004 18:10:55 GMT, lenona321@aol.com (Lenona321) wrote:
>
>>From Robbie Trent's 1944 kids' novel "Susan" (which takes place just
>>before 1900, I think):
>>
>>"....Mother fitted a crust into her pie pan, dusted flour over the
>>bottom, added a thick sprinkling of sugar, and generous lumps of
>>butter. Last of all she filled the crust almost to the top with rich
>>cream, dotted it with nutmeg, and put it in the oven."
>>
>>I have little experience with pies, but something seems wrong here. A
>>custard pie is one thing, but wouldn't whipped cream just go flat in
>>the oven? Not to mention that the sugar wouldn't mix in by itself. Of
>>course, those were the days when some people would make sandwiches
>>with nothing but a spreading of butter on the bread.
>>
>>So, how would you bake this, with only one or two more ingredients? Or
>>did she mean a custard pie?
>>
>>Lenona.
>
> I wonder if today's pasturized cream would prevent this pie from
> setting properly? The cream of 1900 is not the same kind of cream we
> get today.
>
> This reminds me of the old way of making clotted cream - pour fresh
> cream in a shallow pan and set it at the back of your cooktop for
> about 24 hours, skimming off the crust as it forms. That crust is your
> clotted cream (an AGA is perfect for this). I've heard that you can't
> make it this way today because the already pasturized cream won't form
> the proper kind of crust.
>
> Cathy
>
That's certainly true about clotted cream. The pie, however, works fine.
I haven't baked one in a while, but I have used pasteurized cream. I
have never tried it with the ultra-pasteurized cream.
--
Wayne in Phoenix
If there's a nit to pick, some nitwit will pick it.
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| Scott |
In article <j7hle0hgnttgi3ouvdk0oqln5g055b3m2v@4ax.com>,
cathy <cwells21@NOSPAMhotmail.com> wrote:
> This reminds me of the old way of making clotted cream - pour fresh
> cream in a shallow pan and set it at the back of your cooktop for
> about 24 hours, skimming off the crust as it forms. That crust is your
> clotted cream (an AGA is perfect for this). I've heard that you can't
> make it this way today because the already pasturized cream won't form
> the proper kind of crust.
I've heard (but have not tried) that if you add a tablespoon of yogurt
(or cultured buttermilk) with active cultures to a cup of cream, it'll
clot properly.
--
to respond, change "spamless.invalid" with "optonline.net"
please mail OT responses only
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| Bob (this one) |
Scott wrote:
> In article <j7hle0hgnttgi3ouvdk0oqln5g055b3m2v@4ax.com>,
> cathy <cwells21@NOSPAMhotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>This reminds me of the old way of making clotted cream - pour fresh
>>cream in a shallow pan and set it at the back of your cooktop for
>>about 24 hours, skimming off the crust as it forms. That crust is your
>>clotted cream (an AGA is perfect for this). I've heard that you can't
>>make it this way today because the already pasturized cream won't form
>>the proper kind of crust.
>
> I've heard (but have not tried) that if you add a tablespoon of yogurt
> (or cultured buttermilk) with active cultures to a cup of cream, it'll
> clot properly.
It'll clot *differently* and for different chemical reasons. It
becomes yogurt with more milkfat than what you find in stores.
It's not a crust so much as a creamy "skin" like when you heat milk.
It'll work with any cream.
Pastorio
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| Arri London |
Xref: 127.0.0.1 rec.food.cooking:987346
Scott wrote:
>
> In article <j7hle0hgnttgi3ouvdk0oqln5g055b3m2v@4ax.com>,
> cathy <cwells21@NOSPAMhotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > This reminds me of the old way of making clotted cream - pour fresh
> > cream in a shallow pan and set it at the back of your cooktop for
> > about 24 hours, skimming off the crust as it forms. That crust is your
> > clotted cream (an AGA is perfect for this). I've heard that you can't
> > make it this way today because the already pasturized cream won't form
> > the proper kind of crust.
>
> I've heard (but have not tried) that if you add a tablespoon of yogurt
> (or cultured buttermilk) with active cultures to a cup of cream, it'll
> clot properly.
>
>
That will result in something more like creme fraiche. Clotted cream
requires mild heat.
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