| John Taverner |
Solihull Fine Wine Society March Tasting
On a visit to NZ last year I was very impressed with the Pinots. The wine
makers were also very bullish, " we will be better than Burgundy one day"
ROFL
So here goes, blind as usual. One frog as a runner. ( no puns please),
tasters knew there was one.
Kumeu River 2002, North Island £8.95
A bright pale brick, good extract, simple wet bonfire nose, good soft entry,
some tannin good fruit. Quaffing stuff. Screwcap.
Churton Point 2001, Marlborough, £10.95
Again pale, lighter than Kumeu, dumb, is it pinot?, poor thin entry, ;lacks
fruit, bitter. One comment, " is it trying to be French?)
Hunters Pinot, Marlborough, 2001, £11.95
Deeper with great extract, again wet bonfire and tobacco, vegetal. Soft
entry, full fruit, good balance, spice.very pleasant.
Mount Edward, Otago, 2001, £21.50
Portlike depth, viscous. wonderful vegetal piss pot pinot nose, complex. All
in balance, big spicy fruit, so long, wonderful. Drinking now, but ? will
keep.
Pegasus Bay, Christchurch,2001,£19.50
A deep brackish looking wine, ? not filtered., complex restrained nose,
spice, vanilla full fat and tannic, big fruit for a long life, try again 3
years. Most thought this was Burgundy, and a good one at that.
Nuits St George, Bouchard Pere et Fils, 2000, £24,95
Very pale, bright, good legs, dumb sweet pinot that develped over a hour,
rather light weight entry, cranberries, soft, short. Needs more fruit.
Ata Rangi, Martinborough, 2001, £ 25.75
A clear well made wine, knew it was, just by looking at it. Magical old
Pinot nose, compost heaps and crushed fruit. Unctous, almost sweet, but
acidity to balance, long fruit and spice.
A heated debate followed, the Burg showed badly amongst the NZ's. But, it
was only a village wine, yes, but how much more would you have to pay for
1cru or Grand Cru to match them.
We decided that middle ranking burgs were not worth it.
BTW, are we buying the 2002 burgs en primeur? I'm not touching the reds, but
a few good Mersaults, and Le Clos Chablis.....
Happy drinking
JT
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| Dale Williams |
John,
thanks for the notes- interesting as always. I'm interested in trying more NZ
PNs. We don't see that many around here (Felton Road is only one that my local
carries).
I'd only quibble with your idea that midlevel Burgs might not be worth be
buying. I'm not surprised a village NSG from a midlevel negociant in a lighter
year didn't show that well (and $46 for a Bouchard village wine is outrageous!
). There are plenty of village wines worth buying in my opinion - Lafarge &
d'Angerville Volnays, Chevillon NSGs, Roumier or Mugnier Chambolles, etc.
best,
Dale
Dale Williams
Drop "damnspam" to reply
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| Ian Hoare |
Salut/Hi John Taverner,
le/on Wed, 10 Mar 2004 11:47:16 -0000, tu disais/you said:-
>Solihull Fine Wine Society March Tasting
>On a visit to NZ last year I was very impressed with the Pinots. The wine
>makers were also very bullish, " we will be better than Burgundy one day"
Yes, I heard them say that.!! My reaction was scepticsm.
>Nuits St George, Bouchard Pere et Fils, 2000, £24,95
>Very pale, bright, good legs, dumb sweet pinot that develped over a hour,
>rather light weight entry, cranberries, soft, short. Needs more fruit.
I've tried hard to agree with those who find Bouchard a good honest negoce.
I quite like their domaine wines, but not the rest.
>A heated debate followed, the Burg showed badly amongst the NZ's. But, it
>was only a village wine, yes, but how much more would you have to pay for
>1cru or Grand Cru to match them.
>We decided that middle ranking burgs were not worth it.
I'm afraid I don't agree. BUT, as always in Burgundy, the grower is
everything. I was in a salon in Figeac recently and tasted there a Bourgogne
Pinot Noir at €6.50 which was a delight. At Oullins, Sylvie Esmonin's
village Gevrey-Chambertin at about €15 was equally wonderful.
>BTW, are we buying the 2002 burgs en primeur? I'm not touching the reds,
I'm buying Esmonin's Clos St Jacques '02. Wonderfluffle even if at €28.
--
All the Best
Ian Hoare
http://www.souvigne.com
mailbox full to avoid spam. try me at website
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| Johnners |
John Taverner said:
>
> >BTW, are we buying the 2002 burgs en primeur? I'm not touching the reds,
which surprised me as the critical commentary has been very positive. I have
put in for some of Volnay 1er cru Potel, Nuit St G 1er cru Chauvenet and
Gevry 1er cru Fourrier, who have all provided wonderful wines in the past.
Well we shall see - Burgundy always was a minefield!
Johnners
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| John Taverner |
> which surprised me as the critical commentary has been very positive. I
have
> put in for some of Volnay 1er cru Potel, Nuit St G 1er cru Chauvenet and
> Gevry 1er cru Fourrier, who have all provided wonderful wines in the past.
>
> Well we shall see - Burgundy always was a minefield!
You can say that again, I have had so many poor expensive red burgundies,
when they are good they are very very good, when they are bad they are
horrid.
I seem to have better luck with the whites. I also try to stick to claret,
but at todays ridiculous prices, one has to search out other areas.
Cheers
JT
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| st.helier |
"John Taverner" wrote in message...
> On a visit to NZ last year I was very impressed with the Pinots.
You didn't look me up, did you???
> The wine makers were also very bullish,
> " We will be better than Burgundy one day" ROFL
Strangely, I have never heard this remark - well not from any *serious*
pinot producer - and considering the minefield which is Burgundy, perhaps,
on average we are already *better* than Burgundy.
At least once one gets to know the national and regional style, there is
certainly not the huge gap between the top and bottom wines, nor the
lopsided balance towards huge bulk of very ordinary wines which call
themselves Burgundy.
That being said, I am in total agreement with my friend and colleague, M.
Hoare.
NZ has been making Pinot for a mere 20 years - and serious Pinot for half
that - and quality Pinot for half that again.
The great majority of vines are "snotty nosed children" - and some of the
winemakers likewise (in terms of experience).
So, whilst some enthusiastic winemakers may wax lyrical about producing "NZ
Burgundy" - most of us are happy to see the tremendous progress being made
in this tiny pimple of the worlds backside, where quality wines have been
made for only 25 years or so.
>
> So here goes, blind as usual. One frog as a runner. ( no puns please),
> tasters knew there was one.
>
> Kumeu River 2002, North Island £8.95
> A bright pale brick, good extract, simple wet bonfire nose, good soft
entry,
> some tannin good fruit. Quaffing stuff. Screwcap.
A very ordinary example, grown in the north or the country - where pinot
should not - and overpriced at 9 quid.
>
> Churton Point 2001, Marlborough, £10.95
> Again pale, lighter than Kumeu, dumb, is it pinot?, poor thin entry,
;lacks
> fruit, bitter. One comment, " is it trying to be French?)
Who the hell is Churton Point - never heard of them - some export only label
I suspect.
>
> Hunters Pinot, Marlborough, 2001, £11.95
> Deeper with great extract, again wet bonfire and tobacco, vegetal. Soft
> entry, full fruit, good balance, spice.very pleasant.
Most of Marlborough's wineries try to do Pinot - it could and should produce
better wines - but there are no really serious players in this region where
Sauvignon "grows like a weed" (To quote Gary Duke, Winemaker for Hunters)
>
> Mount Edward, Otago, 2001, £21.50
> Portlike depth, viscous. wonderful vegetal piss pot pinot nose, complex.
All
> in balance, big spicy fruit, so long, wonderful. Drinking now, but ? will
> keep.
Alan Brady set up Gibbston Valley Wines in the 1980s - then sold out to set
up Mt. Edward, where he is viticulturist, winemaker and marketer - following
his passionate quest for the perfect NZ Pinot. Ultra small production;
vines so young they are still crying. One to watch.
>
> Pegasus Bay, Christchurch,2001,£19.50
> A deep brackish looking wine, ? not filtered., complex restrained nose,
> spice, vanilla full fat and tannic, big fruit for a long life, try again 3
> years. Most thought this was Burgundy, and a good one at that.
The Donaldson family are doing excellent things across a spectrum of
varieties. Their search for a great Pinot remains their "holy grail" -
again, the vines have been in the ground less than ten years.
>
> Ata Rangi, Martinborough, 2001, £ 25.75
> A clear well made wine, knew it was, just by looking at it. Magical old
> Pinot nose, compost heaps and crushed fruit. Unctous, almost sweet, but
> acidity to balance, long fruit and spice.
>
Yes, the Martinborough do project sweet fruit, don't they. Premier region
for Pinot - and one of the better producers - but behind both Palliser
Estate and Martinborough Vineyards IMVHO.
Sounds like a great tasting, John
It will be interesting to see what Ian Hoare thinks of the progress made
with NZ Pinot in general when he returns to these shores in twenty years or
so!!!!
--
st.helier
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| Ian Hoare |
Salut/Hi st.helier,
le/on Thu, 11 Mar 2004 17:48:13 +1300, tu disais/you said:-
>"John Taverner" wrote in message...
>
>> On a visit to NZ last year I was very impressed with the Pinots.
>
>You didn't look me up, did you???
>
>> The wine makers were also very bullish,
>> " We will be better than Burgundy one day" ROFL
>
>Strangely, I have never heard this remark - well not from any *serious*
>pinot producer - and considering the minefield which is Burgundy, perhaps,
>on average we are already *better* than Burgundy.
Well.... I don't think it was meant TOO seriously.
>At least once one gets to know the national and regional style, there is
>certainly not the huge gap between the top and bottom wines, nor the
>lopsided balance towards huge bulk of very ordinary wines which call
>themselves Burgundy.
I don't know, Andrew. As someone who's extremely rude about bad burgundy and
its producers, I can't really defend its general level of quality with any
honesty. That said, I think the average middle of the road Burgundy pleases
me more than most of the wines I tasted in Central Otago. But I tasted
_nothing_ that pleased me as much as the E6.50 "Bourgogne Pinot Noir" from a
minor Fixin producer that I tasted on Saturday. Fixin is _right_ at one end
of the Cote de Nuits and doesn't have the reputation of the other villages,
and the Bourgogne appellation is the lowest one for Pinot Noir based wines.
>That being said, I am in total agreement with my friend and colleague, M.
>Hoare.
Jeepers. Red letter day!
>The great majority of vines are "snotty nosed children" - and some of the
>winemakers likewise (in terms of experience).
That's the crux of it. In Burgundy, I don't think they're _allowed_ to call
a wine any serious appellation until the vines are at least 7 (or maybe 10)
years old.
I don't think the experience is that important - not in Burgundy. I think
what's important is an absolute intransigence over quality. And that's down
to the character of the grower.
>Alan Brady set up Gibbston Valley Wines in the 1980s - then sold out to set
>up Mt. Edward, where he is viticulturist, winemaker and marketer - following
>his passionate quest for the perfect NZ Pinot. Ultra small production;
>vines so young they are still crying. One to watch.
Definitely one to watch, and one of the few that I would drink again even
from baby vines.
>It will be interesting to see what Ian Hoare thinks of the progress made
>with NZ Pinot in general when he returns to these shores in twenty years or
>so!!!!
I promise it will be less that 20 years. We came in 2001, and said at the
time "5 to 10 years". We can hope to run B&B for another 10 years (which
means that we will have the income to make long trips for that time scale).
Given our other projects, I suspect it will be about the last major trip -
it might even be THE last. A faint possibility might be to tack it onto
another project - cargo boat cruise from Hong Kong or Singapore down through
Indonesia and/or Philippines to Northern Australia. But we WILL be back, and
not too far in the future!
--
All the Best
Ian Hoare
http://www.souvigne.com
mailbox full to avoid spam. try me at website
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| Clint |
"John Taverner" <jtav@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:RVN3c.353$n_3.180@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk...
> > which surprised me as the critical commentary has been very positive. I
> have
> > put in for some of Volnay 1er cru Potel, Nuit St G 1er cru Chauvenet and
> > Gevry 1er cru Fourrier, who have all provided wonderful wines in the
past.
> >
> > Well we shall see - Burgundy always was a minefield!
>
> You can say that again, I have had so many poor expensive red burgundies,
> when they are good they are very very good, when they are bad they are
> horrid.
I feel the same way. Pinot Noir is my favorite grape varietal, and I have
found more often than not that burgandies *always* worth thier fame
and price tag. I have had many fine PN's from oregan and elsewhere in
the world.
Clint
--
------
"An appeaser is one who feeds
crockediles in hopes they will
eat them last."
-Winston Churchill
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| Tom S |
"Clint" <rattlehead@computron.net> wrote in message
news:MGn5c.41957$u_5.33851@fe2.texas.rr.com...
> Pinot Noir is my favorite grape varietal, and I have
> found more often than not that burgandies *always* worth thier fame
> and price tag. I have had many fine PN's from oregan and elsewhere in
> the world.
>
> Clint
>
> --
> ------
>
> "An appeaser is one who feeds
> crockediles in hopes they will
> eat them last."
> -Winston Churchill
Hi, Clint -
You're new in these parts, so I'll give you a couple of pieces of friendly
advice:
Try to stay on topic. This isn't a political newsgroup; it's a wine
newsgroup that occasionally strays into food and wine pairings.
Please turn on your spellchecker! It's "Oregon" and "Burgundy". Even your
signature isn't right. I'm sure that Winston Churchill would have spelled
crocodile correctly.
Welcome to a.f.w.
Yes, we're picky; it's our _mandate_! :^D
Tom S
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