| Vincent |
So I find a wine whose price I see as reasonable. Though it won't be ready
to drink for a few mores years or so, I go out and buy one of those portable
wine cellars from Sam's Club (holds 24 bottles). Then I buy 6 bottles of
wine for $300 each, thinking they will go up in value (some places are
already listing at $450 or more, and the lowest auction I seen these go for
was $340). Am I taking a very big risk? How do I know if these have been
stored properly? (I'm getting tired of the stock market)!! And if they go up
in value, I can sell four for $450 each and drink two, thus getting some
great wine for "free." Is this a good plan?
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| Max Hauser |
I confess that this query reminded me slightly of another posted here April
1, "Subject: Some modest questions."
Max
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| Vincent |
Sorry if I asked something that was covered already. Unfortunately, my
server does not go back to April. The earliest entry is July 1 (and I've
only found this group two days ago). I can understand if people don't want
to answer the same questions again and again. Thanks for mentioning the
previous subject at least. I will google it and see if my answer can be
found there.
But if anyone would like to answer it here as well, I would be much
appreciative. Thanks in advance.
"Max Hauser" <maxREMOVE@THIStdl.com> wrote in message
news:10f81lm92g0tod7@corp.supernews.com...
> I confess that this query reminded me slightly of another posted here
April
> 1, "Subject: Some modest questions."
>
> Max
>
>
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| Dale Williams |
>I buy 6 bottles of
>wine for $300 each, thinking they will go up in value (some places are
>already listing at $450 or more, and the lowest auction I seen these go for
>was $340). Am I taking a very big risk? How do I know if these have been
>stored properly? (I'm getting tired of the stock market)!! And if they go up
>in value, I can sell four for $450 each and drink two, thus getting some
>great wine for "free." Is this a good plan?
>
>
>
I personally would never advise anyone to "invest" in wine. Buy what you plan
on drinking. For you to make a profit,
1) You need to figure in the costs of holding the wine- the cabinet, the
electricity, the lost money-opportunity cost.
2) You better hope a major critic doesn't downgrade the wine. :)
3) Hope that next few vintages of whatever type of wine you have are mediocre -
a string of "super-vintages" coming into the pipeline can significantly soften
market. Despite being excellent vintages, most 1996 Piemontes and 1998 Southern
Rhones haven't really appreciated much since release.
4) Account for seller's costs - commissions, ads, shipping,etc. Personally,
even with assurance of good provenance, I don't buy from private seller unless
they're probably 20+% less than lowest winesearcher.com (pro version!) retail.
5) In US there's also issues with legalities, depending on your state.
6) A lot of external factors (exchange rate, economy, etc) make investing in
wine as risky as the stock market (though less liquid).
Dale
Dale Williams
Drop "damnspam" to reply
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| Ed Rasimus |
On Tue, 13 Jul 2004 15:32:48 GMT, "Vincent" <nobody@nowhere.com>
wrote:
>So I find a wine whose price I see as reasonable. Though it won't be ready
>to drink for a few mores years or so, I go out and buy one of those portable
>wine cellars from Sam's Club (holds 24 bottles). Then I buy 6 bottles of
>wine for $300 each, thinking they will go up in value (some places are
>already listing at $450 or more, and the lowest auction I seen these go for
>was $340). Am I taking a very big risk? How do I know if these have been
>stored properly? (I'm getting tired of the stock market)!! And if they go up
>in value, I can sell four for $450 each and drink two, thus getting some
>great wine for "free." Is this a good plan?
>
Sounds like a plan, but not necessarily a "good" one. First, there is
the economy of scale issue. Dealing with 24 bottles total in six
bottle lots means you've got $7200 tied up for a long time and then
are dependent upon finding someone seeking exactly that producer and
vintage for the appreciated price. Unlikely.
Better to build a cellar for a thousand bottles, buy stuff that you
taste in case lots. Then drink it when you feel like.
Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8
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| Vincent |
Max, I googled for the subject you mentioned, honestly hoping to find an
answer (or sincere advice) to my questions. Instead, I found the post was
yours, and did not seem too sincere (ah yes, April Fool's Day). Up until
now, I have found that people here were quite helpful (very helpful, as a
matter of fact). If my questions seem "foolish" to you, I would rather you
replied so honestly, maybe advising me why I'm being foolish.
Anyway, your sarcasm does seem to tickle a few funny bones. If I'm a
*typical* newbie, and you find fault with that, then maybe this is not the
right place for me. I can't afford to be a yuppie, though I probably would
be if my income matched my taste. Just trying to benefit from the
experiences of others who are willing to share, so that I don't make some
obvious mistakes.
V
"Max Hauser" <maxREMOVE@THIStdl.com> wrote in message
news:10f81lm92g0tod7@corp.supernews.com...
> I confess that this query reminded me slightly of another posted here
April
> 1, "Subject: Some modest questions."
>
> Max
>
>
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| George Cutshaw |
"Dale Williams" <dwmidnt@aol.comdamnspam> wrote in message
news:20040713125355.19243.00001564@mb-m04.aol.com...
> >I buy 6 bottles of
> >wine for $300 each, thinking they will go up in value (some places are
> >already listing at $450 or more, and the lowest auction I seen these go
for
> >was $340). Am I taking a very big risk? How do I know if these have been
> >stored properly? (I'm getting tired of the stock market)!! And if they go
up
> >in value, I can sell four for $450 each and drink two, thus getting some
> >great wine for "free." Is this a good plan?
> >
> >
> >
>
> I personally would never advise anyone to "invest" in wine. Buy what you
plan
> on drinking. For you to make a profit,
> 1) You need to figure in the costs of holding the wine- the cabinet, the
> electricity, the lost money-opportunity cost.
> 2) You better hope a major critic doesn't downgrade the wine. :)
> 3) Hope that next few vintages of whatever type of wine you have are
mediocre -
> a string of "super-vintages" coming into the pipeline can significantly
soften
> market. Despite being excellent vintages, most 1996 Piemontes and 1998
Southern
> Rhones haven't really appreciated much since release.
> 4) Account for seller's costs - commissions, ads, shipping,etc.
Personally,
> even with assurance of good provenance, I don't buy from private seller
unless
> they're probably 20+% less than lowest winesearcher.com (pro version!)
retail.
> 5) In US there's also issues with legalities, depending on your state.
> 6) A lot of external factors (exchange rate, economy, etc) make investing
in
> wine as risky as the stock market (though less liquid).
The only way to profitably "invest" in wines is to get on California mailing
lists (e.g., Screaming Eagle) where the buy price is substantially less than
the secondary market. Any other approach (except perhaps futures or
long-haul investments) will probably result in a loss for the reasons stated
above.
Of course, if you put your money in wine, at least you have a product you
can use (and drown your sorrows with).
Also, in my opinion, NEVER buy old wines. Yes, they might be good, but
there's no way you can be sure. Only buy new releases that are properly
shipped and stored.
>
> Dale
>
> Dale Williams
> Drop "damnspam" to reply
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| Mark Lipton |
Vincent wrote:
> Max, I googled for the subject you mentioned, honestly hoping to find an
> answer (or sincere advice) to my questions. Instead, I found the post was
> yours, and did not seem too sincere (ah yes, April Fool's Day). Up until
> now, I have found that people here were quite helpful (very helpful, as a
> matter of fact). If my questions seem "foolish" to you, I would rather you
> replied so honestly, maybe advising me why I'm being foolish.
Vincent,
You'll have to forgive Max's humor, but you must understand that wine
"investors" are viewed by most wine lovers as a pox on humanity. We buy wine
to enjoy, and those who use it as an investment make it more expensive for us
to enjoy something that we love. I don't begrudge wineries, importers or
retailers their profit margins because they all provide valuable services or
products but I bear no love at all for some leech who wants to sell my
favorite wine at inflated price in the aftermarket and in so doing buys up
all the stock before I can get my hands on any. Get it?
Having said that, it's still a very risky investment. Like any commodity
trading, prices can fluctuate wildly and it's as easy (perhaps easier) to
lose money as it is to make it. Also keep in mind that you're dealing with
a perishable commodity, so your ability to profit will depend on your
providing impeccable provenance. You'll also have to watch auction prices
like a hawk, since you'll have to sell at auction as most states forbid the
sale of alcohol by individuals.
There are economists in this group who could give you a much more detailed
analysis of the pitfalls, but the bottom line is you'd be most likely better
off with a more traditional investment unless you're already a savvy
commodities trader. You'll also have more friends in this group. ;-)
Mark Lipton
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| Vincent |
"Mark Lipton" <notpil@eudrup.ude> wrote in message
news:40F4684A.73A790ED@eudrup.ude...
> Vincent,
> You'll have to forgive Max's humor, but you must understand that wine
> "investors" are viewed by most wine lovers as a pox on humanity. We buy
wine
> to enjoy, and those who use it as an investment make it more expensive for
us
> to enjoy something that we love. I don't begrudge wineries, importers or
> retailers their profit margins because they all provide valuable services
or
> products but I bear no love at all for some leech who wants to sell my
> favorite wine at inflated price in the aftermarket and in so doing buys up
> all the stock before I can get my hands on any. Get it?
Thanks, Mark! Well, if you knew my income, you'd all laugh. There's no way
I'm going to corner the wine market and drive up prices. But I suppose if
everybody took that approach (and some do), then that would drive up the
prices of the good stuff. Just like years ago, getting front-row seats at a
baseball game was quite possible. If ticket holders couldn't make it, they'd
turn their tickets in. Now they sell them to resellers (legal scalpers), who
sell them for well over 1000%.
> Having said that, it's still a very risky investment. Like any commodity
> trading, prices can fluctuate wildly and it's as easy (perhaps easier) to
> lose money as it is to make it. Also keep in mind that you're dealing
with
> a perishable commodity, so your ability to profit will depend on your
> providing impeccable provenance. You'll also have to watch auction prices
> like a hawk, since you'll have to sell at auction as most states forbid
the
> sale of alcohol by individuals.
> There are economists in this group who could give you a much more detailed
> analysis of the pitfalls, but the bottom line is you'd be most likely
better
> off with a more traditional investment unless you're already a savvy
> commodities trader. You'll also have more friends in this group. ;-)
Enjoying wine is the main reason I'm here. The investing came as an
afterthought as a way to afford some of those high-priced 99's which I can't
afford. You, Max, Dale and George kinda all put it in good perspective.
Well, I hope to have some wine experiences to share with this group. Seems
like a lot of good people here.
Take care!
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| Dale Williams |
If you're in Chicago, Sam's has some '99s that probably would drink well with
(a) 2 hour decant & (b) some meatier dishes. Seconds like Bahans Haut Brion or
Sarget du Gruaud-Larose, lesser Left Bankers like Grand Puy Lacoste, or Right
Bankers like La Croix du Casse or Mazeyres. The Bahans is only one I know I've
had, but I'd try any.
Dale
Dale Williams
Drop "damnspam" to reply
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