| California Chablis, Burgondy, etc., no longer so labeled - CLICK HERE for the Cooking Forum Index |
| Leo Bueno |
I remember a couple of decades ago that many California wines (bulk
and cheap ones come to mind) were labeled as "Chablis", "Burgundy",
"Beaujolais" or "Gamay Beaujolais", etc.
This practice has stopped, I suspect in part due to political pressure
from France (yes, the same folk who were annoyed by "Goats Do Roam").
I am interested in finding out how and why this change took place.
--
=================================================
Do you like wine? Do you live in South Florida?
Visit the MIAMI WINE TASTERS group at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/miamiWINE
=================================================
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| Dan Gravell |
Leo Bueno wrote:
> I remember a couple of decades ago that many California wines (bulk
> and cheap ones come to mind) were labeled as "Chablis", "Burgundy",
> "Beaujolais" or "Gamay Beaujolais", etc.
>
> This practice has stopped, I suspect in part due to political pressure
> from France (yes, the same folk who were annoyed by "Goats Do Roam").
>
> I am interested in finding out how and why this change took place.
According to the Wikipedia it still goes on...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semi-generic
.... which prompts a question from myself. Such semi generic names are
used to label generic wine (as detailed above) yet the details there
don't really go into much detail. Both Burgundy and Claret, for
instance, are labelled "generic". Surely there is more to the style than
that that makes one wine in one category, and another elsewhere?
Dan
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| Vino |
On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 16:01:37 +0100, Dan Gravell
<dan.gravellnospam@mochamail.com> wrote:
>Leo Bueno wrote:
>
>> I remember a couple of decades ago that many California wines (bulk
>> and cheap ones come to mind) were labeled as "Chablis", "Burgundy",
>> "Beaujolais" or "Gamay Beaujolais", etc.
>>
>> This practice has stopped, I suspect in part due to political pressure
>> from France (yes, the same folk who were annoyed by "Goats Do Roam").
>>
>> I am interested in finding out how and why this change took place.
>
>According to the Wikipedia it still goes on...
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semi-generic
>
>... which prompts a question from myself. Such semi generic names are
>used to label generic wine (as detailed above) yet the details there
>don't really go into much detail. Both Burgundy and Claret, for
>instance, are labelled "generic". Surely there is more to the style than
>that that makes one wine in one category, and another elsewhere?
>
>Dan
AFAIA, wines made in California can still be called Burgundy, Chablis,
etc. However, the TTB (successor to the BATF) requires that these
names be qualified by the addition of the appelation of origin. So
what you see are things like "California Burgundy" (an oxymoron if I
ever heard one). Oregon has outlawed the practice altogether and a
voluntary association that most Washington State wineries belong to
has also outlawed it for its members. I don't think that pressure from
France had anything to do with any of this, or at least was not a
major factor in what was done. For more information on labels, see
http://www.ttb.gov/publications/alctob_pub/p51901.pdf
Another item along the same lines is that the TTB has ruled that the
term "Johannisberg Reisling" must cease being used starting January 1,
2006. I believe this ruling *did* come as a result of some trade
agreements made with the EU.
As for the term "generic", I have always believed that it was used (in
the USA, anyway) to distinguish (generally cheap) wines that were not
labelled varietally from (generally) more expensive ones that were. I
don't believe that the term has any legal significance. No one would
call wines like Insignia, Rubicon, etc., "generic" even though they
are not labelled varietally.
As always, I am not the last word on things like this and am always
open to correction and/or further comments.
Vino
To reply, add "x" between
letters and numbers of
e-mail address.
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| Mathew Kagis |
"Leo Bueno" <REMOVETHISleobueno@usa.net> wrote in message
news:rkvji0510ulj7703qvfvb9ehoq8680ud05@4ax.com...
>
> I remember a couple of decades ago that many California wines (bulk
> and cheap ones come to mind) were labeled as "Chablis", "Burgundy",
> "Beaujolais" or "Gamay Beaujolais", etc.
>
> This practice has stopped, I suspect in part due to political pressure
> from France (yes, the same folk who were annoyed by "Goats Do Roam").
>
> I am interested in finding out how and why this change took place.
As far as I understand, it was International trade agreements that
fostered the change. I'm a little foggy on the details, but I seem to
remember something about the US wine market agreeing to phase out terms like
'Chablis' & 'Champagne'. I think they can still be used domesticaly, but
have been dropped from export labels.
Cheers
Mathew
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| Vino |
On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 16:49:23 GMT, "Mathew Kagis" <winesnob@telus.net>
wrote:
>
>"Leo Bueno" <REMOVETHISleobueno@usa.net> wrote in message
>news:rkvji0510ulj7703qvfvb9ehoq8680ud05@4ax.com...
>>
>> I remember a couple of decades ago that many California wines (bulk
>> and cheap ones come to mind) were labeled as "Chablis", "Burgundy",
>> "Beaujolais" or "Gamay Beaujolais", etc.
>>
>> This practice has stopped, I suspect in part due to political pressure
>> from France (yes, the same folk who were annoyed by "Goats Do Roam").
>>
>> I am interested in finding out how and why this change took place.
>
> As far as I understand, it was International trade agreements that
>fostered the change. I'm a little foggy on the details, but I seem to
>remember something about the US wine market agreeing to phase out terms like
>'Chablis' & 'Champagne'. I think they can still be used domesticaly, but
>have been dropped from export labels.
>
I don't know that they were *ever* used for export labels. In any
case, they cannot be contained on labels for wine shipped to any of
the EU countries. Even the term "Méthode Champenoise" cannot be used
on labels of sparkling wine shipped to these countries, even though
its use is common in the USA.
As far as the French (or Germans, Italians, etc.) being annoyed by
some of these things, I believe their annoyance is, to some extent,
justified. I think the people in Georgia (the US state, not the
country that was formerly part of the USSR) would be pretty pissed off
if the French started marketing "Vidalia onions" (to cite just one
example).
Vino
To reply, add "x" between
letters and numbers of
e-mail address.
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| Mathew Kagis |
> > As far as I understand, it was International trade agreements that
> >fostered the change. I'm a little foggy on the details, but I seem to
> >remember something about the US wine market agreeing to phase out terms
like
> >'Chablis' & 'Champagne'. I think they can still be used domesticaly, but
> >have been dropped from export labels.
> >
> I don't know that they were *ever* used for export labels. In any
> case, they cannot be contained on labels for wine shipped to any of
> the EU countries. Even the term "Méthode Champenoise" cannot be used
> on labels of sparkling wine shipped to these countries, even though
> its use is common in the USA.
I seem to remember generic US 'Burgundies' & 'Chablis' on the shelves of
BC liquor stores back in the 80's.... can anyone confirm or deny?
cheers
Mathew
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| jeffc |
"Leo Bueno" <REMOVETHISleobueno@usa.net> wrote in message
news:rkvji0510ulj7703qvfvb9ehoq8680ud05@4ax.com...
>
> I remember a couple of decades ago that many California wines (bulk
> and cheap ones come to mind) were labeled as "Chablis", "Burgundy",
> "Beaujolais" or "Gamay Beaujolais", etc.
>
> This practice has stopped, I suspect in part due to political pressure
> from France (yes, the same folk who were annoyed by "Goats Do Roam").
I still see it in the bigger jugs, although I've never seen "Beaujolais" as
such
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| Ian Hoare |
Salut/Hi Leo Bueno,
le/on Mon, 23 Aug 2004 14:32:20 GMT, tu disais/you said:-
>
>I remember a couple of decades ago that many California wines (bulk
>and cheap ones come to mind) were labeled as "Chablis", "Burgundy",
>"Beaujolais" or "Gamay Beaujolais", etc.
>
>This practice has stopped, I suspect in part due to political pressure
>from France (yes, the same folk who were annoyed by "Goats Do Roam").
I think your language is a little tendentious here. International trade, it
seems to me needs some kind of mutual respect and discipline. It's not just
France which dislikes wine region names being used as if they were
descriptive of a type of wine. Portugal, takes a dim view of "Port" and
Madeira being treated in that way, Spain with Sherry.
Trade goes both ways, if the USA wants to export to Europe (and I'm not
talking about exporting "Burgandy" or Chablees", but computer parts and
programs), then it should take part in the GATT talks and respect their
findings. Perhaps I'm wrong, and I most sincerely hope I am, but I sometimes
get the feeling that some Americans think that USA companies should be able
to do whatever they want in international trade, because they are bigger and
better armed than their partners. At the moment, we're in the middle of
quite a serious trade war between Europe and the USA, though it may be that
your newspapers and TV news reports have failed to tell you about it.
--
All the Best
Ian Hoare
http://www.souvigne.com
mailbox full to avoid spam. try me at website
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| Richard Neidich |
What trade wars? Nothing in news here other than Bill O'Reilly and French
Wine.(pricing still has not fallen).
Remember that since we produce virtually nothing here in USA trade wars have
little effect here. Computer parts even of American Companies are made
mostly in Asia and China. Boycott all you want.
I drive a Ford Expedition half the parts are from Canada and Japan. My wife
drives a Mercedes. More of it is proabably of USA parts than my Ford. Go
figure.
What trade wars are you refering to?
"Ian Hoare" <ianhoare@angelfire.com> wrote in message
news:1pqki0l5k5b8rc05bj4p3o05782438d0r7@4ax.com...
> Salut/Hi Leo Bueno,
>
> le/on Mon, 23 Aug 2004 14:32:20 GMT, tu disais/you said:-
>
> >
> >I remember a couple of decades ago that many California wines (bulk
> >and cheap ones come to mind) were labeled as "Chablis", "Burgundy",
> >"Beaujolais" or "Gamay Beaujolais", etc.
> >
> >This practice has stopped, I suspect in part due to political pressure
> >from France (yes, the same folk who were annoyed by "Goats Do Roam").
>
> I think your language is a little tendentious here. International trade,
it
> seems to me needs some kind of mutual respect and discipline. It's not
just
> France which dislikes wine region names being used as if they were
> descriptive of a type of wine. Portugal, takes a dim view of "Port" and
> Madeira being treated in that way, Spain with Sherry.
>
> Trade goes both ways, if the USA wants to export to Europe (and I'm not
> talking about exporting "Burgandy" or Chablees", but computer parts and
> programs), then it should take part in the GATT talks and respect their
> findings. Perhaps I'm wrong, and I most sincerely hope I am, but I
sometimes
> get the feeling that some Americans think that USA companies should be
able
> to do whatever they want in international trade, because they are bigger
and
> better armed than their partners. At the moment, we're in the middle of
> quite a serious trade war between Europe and the USA, though it may be
that
> your newspapers and TV news reports have failed to tell you about it.
> --
> All the Best
> Ian Hoare
> http://www.souvigne.com
> mailbox full to avoid spam. try me at website
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| Richard Neidich |
Also, I agree with you on the naming of wine regions. Even if law does not
require, there should be a certain level of respect applied here. That said
I really like a sparkling wine called Schraumsberg from Napa and they label
it a Champaigne. I like it far more than Mumm, Chandon and Domaine Canaros
that call these sparkling wines.
I drink what I like, not what they call it. I would not boycott
Schraumsberg because of the name Champaigne but I do think it is wrong to
label it as such.
"Richard Neidich" <rneidich@REMOVEearthlink.net> wrote in message
news:TAFWc.10576$2L3.2927@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> What trade wars? Nothing in news here other than Bill O'Reilly and French
> Wine.(pricing still has not fallen).
>
> Remember that since we produce virtually nothing here in USA trade wars
have
> little effect here. Computer parts even of American Companies are made
> mostly in Asia and China. Boycott all you want.
>
> I drive a Ford Expedition half the parts are from Canada and Japan. My
wife
> drives a Mercedes. More of it is proabably of USA parts than my Ford. Go
> figure.
>
> What trade wars are you refering to?
>
>
> "Ian Hoare" <ianhoare@angelfire.com> wrote in message
> news:1pqki0l5k5b8rc05bj4p3o05782438d0r7@4ax.com...
> > Salut/Hi Leo Bueno,
> >
> > le/on Mon, 23 Aug 2004 14:32:20 GMT, tu disais/you said:-
> >
> > >
> > >I remember a couple of decades ago that many California wines (bulk
> > >and cheap ones come to mind) were labeled as "Chablis", "Burgundy",
> > >"Beaujolais" or "Gamay Beaujolais", etc.
> > >
> > >This practice has stopped, I suspect in part due to political pressure
> > >from France (yes, the same folk who were annoyed by "Goats Do Roam").
> >
> > I think your language is a little tendentious here. International trade,
> it
> > seems to me needs some kind of mutual respect and discipline. It's not
> just
> > France which dislikes wine region names being used as if they were
> > descriptive of a type of wine. Portugal, takes a dim view of "Port" and
> > Madeira being treated in that way, Spain with Sherry.
> >
> > Trade goes both ways, if the USA wants to export to Europe (and I'm not
> > talking about exporting "Burgandy" or Chablees", but computer parts and
> > programs), then it should take part in the GATT talks and respect their
> > findings. Perhaps I'm wrong, and I most sincerely hope I am, but I
> sometimes
> > get the feeling that some Americans think that USA companies should be
> able
> > to do whatever they want in international trade, because they are bigger
> and
> > better armed than their partners. At the moment, we're in the middle of
> > quite a serious trade war between Europe and the USA, though it may be
> that
> > your newspapers and TV news reports have failed to tell you about it.
> > --
> > All the Best
> > Ian Hoare
> > http://www.souvigne.com
> > mailbox full to avoid spam. try me at website
>
>
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| Michael Pronay |
"Richard Neidich" <rneidich@REMOVEearthlink.net> wrote:
> That said I really like a sparkling wine called Schraumsberg
Schramsberg
> from Napa and they label it a Champaigne.
Champagne:
<http://www.cnn.com/interactive/food...de/schramsberg.
blancs.html>
or
<http://snipurl.com/8me2>
> I like it far more than Mumm, Chandon and Domaine Canaros
Carneros
> that call these sparkling wines.
You might like it, but not seem to drink it often, because you
would have realized that they changed the labelling to "Sparkling
Wine". (They use "Methode Champenoise" which might be illegal in
Europe, but with which designation I do not have the slightest
problem):
<http://www.wilsondaniels.com/schram...sberg_main.html>
M.
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| Richard Neidich |
I was at Winery last week when in Napa....wine I bought reflects Champagne.
You are correct on my spelling error.
If you say they changed the labeling I think that is a good change. They
can stand on their own merrit. I think they and Roederer-Anderson Valley
are the best of California sparklers.
The wines I purchased were RD's and were old. Bottles still reflect
Champagne. Sorry :-)
"Michael Pronay" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:Xns954F8FECE14FFgmxat@pronay.com...
> "Richard Neidich" <rneidich@REMOVEearthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > That said I really like a sparkling wine called Schraumsberg
> > from Napa and they label it a Champaigne.
>
> First, they labelled it "Champagne". And second, apparently you
> like it, but not seem to drink it often, because you would have
> realized that they changed the labelling to "Sparkling Wine",
> although they use "Methode Champenoise" (which might be illegal in
> Europe, but with which designation I do not have the slightest
> problem):
>
> <http://www.wilsondaniels.com/schram...sberg_main.html>
>
> M.
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| Richard Neidich |
Also, their cases say Champagne. Sorry again. :-)
"Michael Pronay" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:Xns954F8FECE14FFgmxat@pronay.com...
> "Richard Neidich" <rneidich@REMOVEearthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > That said I really like a sparkling wine called Schraumsberg
> > from Napa and they label it a Champaigne.
>
> First, they labelled it "Champagne". And second, apparently you
> like it, but not seem to drink it often, because you would have
> realized that they changed the labelling to "Sparkling Wine",
> although they use "Methode Champenoise" (which might be illegal in
> Europe, but with which designation I do not have the slightest
> problem):
>
> <http://www.wilsondaniels.com/schram...sberg_main.html>
>
> M.
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| Richard Neidich |
Got me again on spelling---
"Michael Pronay" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:Xns954F91ACEB66Dgmxat@pronay.com...
> "Richard Neidich" <rneidich@REMOVEearthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > That said I really like a sparkling wine called Schraumsberg
>
> Schramsberg
>
> > from Napa and they label it a Champaigne.
>
> Champagne:
>
> <http://www.cnn.com/interactive/food...de/schramsberg.
> blancs.html>
>
> or
>
> <http://snipurl.com/8me2>
>
> > I like it far more than Mumm, Chandon and Domaine Canaros
>
> Carneros
>
> > that call these sparkling wines.
>
> You might like it, but not seem to drink it often, because you
> would have realized that they changed the labelling to "Sparkling
> Wine". (They use "Methode Champenoise" which might be illegal in
> Europe, but with which designation I do not have the slightest
> problem):
>
> <http://www.wilsondaniels.com/schram...sberg_main.html>
>
> M.
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| Michael Pronay |
"Richard Neidich" <rneidich@REMOVEearthlink.net> wrote:
> Got me again on spelling
And you got me before my supersede ... ;-)
M.
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| Richard Neidich |
Oh yeah...forgot to mention that Schramsberg is my favorite Cal. Sparkling
wine.
What I did not say is my favorite overall sparkler is Champagne---
I love Krug NV and the Grand Siecle from Laurent Perrier. Both are Cuvee's
and with differing qualities. But they are my favorite. I have had old
Dom that was RD and it was outstanding...but since I cannot get RD Dom often
or affordable Krug NV and Grand Siecle rule!
Message to M. Pronay: Please correct my spelling and repost for me.:-)
"Michael Pronay" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:Xns954F91ACEB66Dgmxat@pronay.com...
> "Richard Neidich" <rneidich@REMOVEearthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > That said I really like a sparkling wine called Schraumsberg
>
> Schramsberg
>
> > from Napa and they label it a Champaigne.
>
> Champagne:
>
> <http://www.cnn.com/interactive/food...de/schramsberg.
> blancs.html>
>
> or
>
> <http://snipurl.com/8me2>
>
> > I like it far more than Mumm, Chandon and Domaine Canaros
>
> Carneros
>
> > that call these sparkling wines.
>
> You might like it, but not seem to drink it often, because you
> would have realized that they changed the labelling to "Sparkling
> Wine". (They use "Methode Champenoise" which might be illegal in
> Europe, but with which designation I do not have the slightest
> problem):
>
> <http://www.wilsondaniels.com/schram...sberg_main.html>
>
> M.
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| Michael Pronay |
"Richard Neidich" <rneidich@REMOVEearthlink.net> wrote:
> but since I cannot get RD Dom often or affordable Krug NV and
> Grand Siecle rule!
Well, both aren't really cheapos either ... :-(
M.
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| Richard Neidich |
Xref: 127.0.0.1 alt.food.wine:139862
I had the Grand Siecle for the first time about 3 months ago. I had never
seen before. Its incredible. Far more delicate that Krug with complexity
that was incredible. Had both vintage and non vintage and both were
OUTSTANDING!.
What is your impression of Grand Siecle?
"Michael Pronay" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:Xns954F93AA5E01Dgmxat@pronay.com...
> "Richard Neidich" <rneidich@REMOVEearthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > but since I cannot get RD Dom often or affordable Krug NV and
> > Grand Siecle rule!
>
> Well, both aren't really cheapos either ... :-(
>
> M.
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| Michael Pronay |
"Richard Neidich" <rneidich@REMOVEearthlink.net> wrote:
> I had the Grand Siecle for the first time about 3 months ago. I
> had never seen before. Its incredible. Far more delicate that
> Krug with complexity that was incredible. Had both vintage and
> non vintage and both were OUTSTANDING!.
Note that vintage dated Grand Siècle is specially made for the
US market. Here in Europe we only have the non vintage, with
the exception of the 1985 Grand Siècle Alexandra "Cuvée
exceptionellement millésimée" released a few year ago, but long
since disappered from the shelves. Luckily I have a bottle they
gave me when I was there and met Alexandra de Nonancourt, daughter
of Bernard de Nonancourt, owner of Laurent-Perrier and a few
other houses, among them Salon, also a favourite of mine.
M.
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| Steve Grant |
"Ian Hoare" <ianhoare@angelfire.com> wrote in message
news:1pqki0l5k5b8rc05bj4p3o05782438d0r7@4ax.com...
>
> At the moment, we're in the middle of
> quite a serious trade war between Europe and the USA, though it may be
that
> your newspapers and TV news reports have failed to tell you about it.
Your pretension and condescension are breathtaking.
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| Anders Tørneskog |
"Steve Grant" <ACE1242@concentric.net> skrev i melding
news:cgfgfv$6l@dispatch.concentric.net...
> "Ian Hoare" <ianhoare@angelfire.com> wrote in message
> news:1pqki0l5k5b8rc05bj4p3o05782438d0r7@4ax.com...
> >
> > At the moment, we're in the middle of
> > quite a serious trade war between Europe and the USA, though it may be
> that
> > your newspapers and TV news reports have failed to tell you about it.
>
> Your pretension and condescension are breathtaking.
>
He may be in error. I think, oth, that I've seen something about that the
Bush administration has expressly forbidden any reports and/or TV footage on
body bags coming from Irak?
It isn't always easy to sort out what's true or not about reports from the
other side of the pond - could you confirm?
Anders
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| Richard Neidich |
I think that is correct. The embedded media had some stipulations on
reporting and showing of injured and dead.
That is my recolections...but what does that have to do with trade?
"Anders Tørneskog" <sredna.goksenrot@c2i.net> wrote in message
news:IdIWc.587$8c.51841@juliett.dax.net...
>
> "Steve Grant" <ACE1242@concentric.net> skrev i melding
> news:cgfgfv$6l@dispatch.concentric.net...
> > "Ian Hoare" <ianhoare@angelfire.com> wrote in message
> > news:1pqki0l5k5b8rc05bj4p3o05782438d0r7@4ax.com...
> > >
> > > At the moment, we're in the middle of
> > > quite a serious trade war between Europe and the USA, though it may be
> > that
> > > your newspapers and TV news reports have failed to tell you about it.
> >
> > Your pretension and condescension are breathtaking.
> >
> He may be in error. I think, oth, that I've seen something about that the
> Bush administration has expressly forbidden any reports and/or TV footage
on
> body bags coming from Irak?
> It isn't always easy to sort out what's true or not about reports from the
> other side of the pond - could you confirm?
> Anders
>
>
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| Ed Rasimus |
On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 14:25:44 GMT, "Anders Tørneskog"
<sredna.goksenrot@c2i.net> wrote:
>
>"Steve Grant" <ACE1242@concentric.net> skrev i melding
>news:cgfgfv$6l@dispatch.concentric.net...
>> "Ian Hoare" <ianhoare@angelfire.com> wrote in message
>> news:1pqki0l5k5b8rc05bj4p3o05782438d0r7@4ax.com...
>> >
>> > At the moment, we're in the middle of
>> > quite a serious trade war between Europe and the USA, though it may be
>> that
>> > your newspapers and TV news reports have failed to tell you about it.
>>
>> Your pretension and condescension are breathtaking.
>>
>He may be in error. I think, oth, that I've seen something about that the
>Bush administration has expressly forbidden any reports and/or TV footage on
>body bags coming from Irak?
>It isn't always easy to sort out what's true or not about reports from the
>other side of the pond - could you confirm?
>Anders
>
Similar to Mark Twain's famous comment on his reported death, the
reports of how the current administration is handling the war are
"greatly exaggerated". We're in the silly season of a presidential
election year and the manifest decline in intellectual capacity of the
average citizen means that the political dialog is reduced to
name-calling, innuendo, and over-simplification of complex issues.
The reporting of names of casualties in the war on terror (which we
are all involved in whether we admit it or not) is a daily affair.
Even in the hinterland we get the side-bar in the daily newspaper of
deaths and wounded. (As a career military type, I find the numbers
surprisingly low considering the magnitude of the operation). The
administration has requested that video of arrivals of caskets not be
routinely displayed. This is more in deference to the families than a
suppression (we've also got a pesky little thing called the First
Amendment to our Constitution that gets involved.)
As for the "trade war", Ian is certainly correct that there are
considerable tariff issues under discussion regarding wines, spirits
and (of all things) whole milk cheeses. It is virtually impossible to
draw lines between the political, the economic and the emotional on
these issues.
And, Anders, you might want to note that we don't return our warriors
to the US in "body bags", they get aluminum flag-draped coffins.
I've experienced virtually no discernible change in prices or
availability of the indispensibles of my life style which includes
regular infusions of single-malt whisky, a wide range of Italian reds
and a slowly increasing collection of Rhones and Bordeaux. So, the
impact of the trade war at the consumer level is minimal.
I will confess to having recently reshod my Infiniti coupe with
Bridgestone's rather than Michelin's but it's about performance and
not about the country of origin. And definitely not a commentary on
the results of F-1 races.
Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
"Phantom Flights, Bangkok Nights"
Both from Smithsonian Books
***www.thunderchief.org
|
|
|
| Richard Neidich |
Ed, I was told that embedded media had limitations on what they were allowed
to report and when they were allowed with regards to dead, injured. Many
cases it was to allow for families to be notified first and to protect their
names.
That said I heard information was being delayed due to public sentiment.
Granted most of my info is from my son who is in a liberal arts school but
they studied this issue in a jounalism class. He is dual major
businss/jounalism for pre law at UNC-Chapel Hill.
I don't think we get all the news.
"Ed Rasimus" <rasimusNOSPAM@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:p2nmi05vf4vu074on4g7nrcrip4n7psv47@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 14:25:44 GMT, "Anders Tørneskog"
> <sredna.goksenrot@c2i.net> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Steve Grant" <ACE1242@concentric.net> skrev i melding
> >news:cgfgfv$6l@dispatch.concentric.net...
> >> "Ian Hoare" <ianhoare@angelfire.com> wrote in message
> >> news:1pqki0l5k5b8rc05bj4p3o05782438d0r7@4ax.com...
> >> >
> >> > At the moment, we're in the middle of
> >> > quite a serious trade war between Europe and the USA, though it may
be
> >> that
> >> > your newspapers and TV news reports have failed to tell you about it.
> >>
> >> Your pretension and condescension are breathtaking.
> >>
> >He may be in error. I think, oth, that I've seen something about that
the
> >Bush administration has expressly forbidden any reports and/or TV footage
on
> >body bags coming from Irak?
> >It isn't always easy to sort out what's true or not about reports from
the
> >other side of the pond - could you confirm?
> >Anders
> >
>
> Similar to Mark Twain's famous comment on his reported death, the
> reports of how the current administration is handling the war are
> "greatly exaggerated". We're in the silly season of a presidential
> election year and the manifest decline in intellectual capacity of the
> average citizen means that the political dialog is reduced to
> name-calling, innuendo, and over-simplification of complex issues.
>
> The reporting of names of casualties in the war on terror (which we
> are all involved in whether we admit it or not) is a daily affair.
> Even in the hinterland we get the side-bar in the daily newspaper of
> deaths and wounded. (As a career military type, I find the numbers
> surprisingly low considering the magnitude of the operation). The
> administration has requested that video of arrivals of caskets not be
> routinely displayed. This is more in deference to the families than a
> suppression (we've also got a pesky little thing called the First
> Amendment to our Constitution that gets involved.)
>
> As for the "trade war", Ian is certainly correct that there are
> considerable tariff issues under discussion regarding wines, spirits
> and (of all things) whole milk cheeses. It is virtually impossible to
> draw lines between the political, the economic and the emotional on
> these issues.
>
> And, Anders, you might want to note that we don't return our warriors
> to the US in "body bags", they get aluminum flag-draped coffins.
>
> I've experienced virtually no discernible change in prices or
> availability of the indispensibles of my life style which includes
> regular infusions of single-malt whisky, a wide range of Italian reds
> and a slowly increasing collection of Rhones and Bordeaux. So, the
> impact of the trade war at the consumer level is minimal.
>
> I will confess to having recently reshod my Infiniti coupe with
> Bridgestone's rather than Michelin's but it's about performance and
> not about the country of origin. And definitely not a commentary on
> the results of F-1 races.
>
>
> Ed Rasimus
> Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
> "When Thunder Rolled"
> "Phantom Flights, Bangkok Nights"
> Both from Smithsonian Books
> ***www.thunderchief.org
|
|
|
| Mike Tommasi |
On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 15:39:53 GMT, "Richard Neidich"
<rneidich@REMOVEearthlink.net> wrote:
>I don't think we get all the news.
Hi Dick
All this is OT, so I hope it ends soon, here is what could be a
concluding statement :
I think you are right, having the opportunity to visit the US every
2-3 months, I now know for sure that you do not get all the news. But
wanna know something? We don't either ! ;-)))
Cheers, and back to wine.
Mike
Mike Tommasi, Six Fours, France
email link http://www.tommasi.org/mymail
|
|
|
| Richard Neidich |
I agree with that. News is very slanted based upon country its reported in.
You ever get to North Carolina?
"Mike Tommasi" <garbage@tommasi.org> wrote in message
news:tqomi0tvgt2sben8uviu7u6d0u99nog4pm@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 15:39:53 GMT, "Richard Neidich"
> <rneidich@REMOVEearthlink.net> wrote:
>
> >I don't think we get all the news.
>
> Hi Dick
>
> All this is OT, so I hope it ends soon, here is what could be a
> concluding statement :
>
> I think you are right, having the opportunity to visit the US every
> 2-3 months, I now know for sure that you do not get all the news. But
> wanna know something? We don't either ! ;-)))
>
> Cheers, and back to wine.
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> Mike Tommasi, Six Fours, France
> email link http://www.tommasi.org/mymail
|
|
|
| Vino |
On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 14:25:44 GMT, "Anders Tørneskog"
<sredna.goksenrot@c2i.net> wrote:
>
>"Steve Grant" <ACE1242@concentric.net> skrev i melding
>news:cgfgfv$6l@dispatch.concentric.net...
>> "Ian Hoare" <ianhoare@angelfire.com> wrote in message
>> news:1pqki0l5k5b8rc05bj4p3o05782438d0r7@4ax.com...
>> >
>> > At the moment, we're in the middle of
>> > quite a serious trade war between Europe and the USA, though it may be
>> that
>> > your newspapers and TV news reports have failed to tell you about it.
>>
>> Your pretension and condescension are breathtaking.
>>
>He may be in error. I think, oth, that I've seen something about that the
>Bush administration has expressly forbidden any reports and/or TV footage on
>body bags coming from Irak?
>It isn't always easy to sort out what's true or not about reports from the
>other side of the pond - could you confirm?
>Anders
>
Partly. There is no way any administration could forbid "reports"
about such things. We still have a free (if sometimes gullible) press
over here. What the current administration has done is to keep the
press (including photographers) away from situations where flag-draped
coffins (not body bags) would be visible. A woman who was a private
contractor was fired, along with her husband, for taking photographs
inside a transport plane that contained several dozen flag-draped
coffins. Such prohibitions have not been used in the past and stand in
stark contrast to practices in the UK, where members of the Royal
Family often attend the unloading of transport planes containing
bodies of soldiers killed in action. AFAIK, our president has yet to
attend any ceremony honoring US soldiers killed in action. The only
conclusion that I can draw from all this is that it is an attempt to
hide the true cost (and I'm not talking about dollars) of the Iraq war
from the American people.
Regarding Ian's comment on a trade war between the USA and Europe,
trade disputes generally don't get much coverage in the newspapers, at
least the ones I read (including the New York Times) and rarely any at
all on TV. An exception was when the current administration put higher
tariffs on imported steel several months back to protect domestic
producers. The EU threatened retaliation on a range of US products and
the tariffs were dropped. Living in Seattle, I read a lot in the local
papers about disputes between Boeing and Airbus, and I suspect similar
issues are reported on where they have a local impact. Whether all
this amounts to a trade "war" is a matter of definition.
In the overall scheme of things, wine labels seem like a minor issue
(except to the Burgundians, the Champenois, the Chablians(?), ect.).
Vino
To reply, add "x" between
letters and numbers of
e-mail address.
|
|
|
| Mike Tommasi |
On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 15:52:02 GMT, "Richard Neidich"
<rneidich@REMOVEearthlink.net> wrote:
>I agree with that. News is very slanted based upon country its reported in.
>
>You ever get to North Carolina?
No, only California, sometimes NY. What about your French trip, that
still on the roadmap?
Mike
Mike Tommasi, Six Fours, France
email link http://www.tommasi.org/mymail
|
|
|
| Richard Neidich |
Possibly later this year or spring next year.
"Mike Tommasi" <garbage@tommasi.org> wrote in message
news:t4qmi0pj32n10bbl5a53bm83rm5i63fg6m@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 15:52:02 GMT, "Richard Neidich"
> <rneidich@REMOVEearthlink.net> wrote:
>
> >I agree with that. News is very slanted based upon country its reported
in.
> >
> >You ever get to North Carolina?
>
> No, only California, sometimes NY. What about your French trip, that
> still on the roadmap?
>
> Mike
>
> Mike Tommasi, Six Fours, France
> email link http://www.tommasi.org/mymail
|
|
|
| Ed Rasimus |
On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 16:03:28 GMT, Vino <ifw416@yahoo.com> wrote:
>On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 14:25:44 GMT, "Anders Tørneskog"
><sredna.goksenrot@c2i.net> wrote:
>>>
>>He may be in error. I think, oth, that I've seen something about that the
>>Bush administration has expressly forbidden any reports and/or TV footage on
>>body bags coming from Irak?
>>It isn't always easy to sort out what's true or not about reports from the
>>other side of the pond - could you confirm?
>>Anders
>>
>Partly. There is no way any administration could forbid "reports"
>about such things. We still have a free (if sometimes gullible) press
>over here. What the current administration has done is to keep the
>press (including photographers) away from situations where flag-draped
>coffins (not body bags) would be visible. A woman who was a private
>contractor was fired, along with her husband, for taking photographs
>inside a transport plane that contained several dozen flag-draped
>coffins. Such prohibitions have not been used in the past and stand in
>stark contrast to practices in the UK, where members of the Royal
>Family often attend the unloading of transport planes containing
>bodies of soldiers killed in action. AFAIK, our president has yet to
>attend any ceremony honoring US soldiers killed in action. The only
>conclusion that I can draw from all this is that it is an attempt to
>hide the true cost (and I'm not talking about dollars) of the Iraq war
>from the American people.
Sorry, but you'd be way wrong regarding the President's involvement
with the returning active force, wounded, hospitalized and deceased.
He's been several times to Colorado where he spent considerable
one-on-one time (not a photo-op!) with families from Fort Carson who
lost members in the 3rd ACR, the 3rd Bde/4 ID, and the support units.
He's also been to Fort Hood for similar purposes as well as meeting
several of the returning aircraft with those who have lost their
lives. He's visited the hospitals and there's been a number of
back-channel photos passed from vet to vet showing him running with
one of the rehabilitating amputees, talking quietly with wounded, and
embracing family members.
These events shouldn't be about the publicity, but about the sympathy
for loss and respect for the sacrfices made.
The cost (not about $$) is very visible in terms of the daily
newspapers.
>
>Regarding Ian's comment on a trade war between the USA and Europe,
>trade disputes generally don't get much coverage in the newspapers, at
>least the ones I read (including the New York Times) and rarely any at
>all on TV. An exception was when the current administration put higher
>tariffs on imported steel several months back to protect domestic
>producers. The EU threatened retaliation on a range of US products and
>the tariffs were dropped. Living in Seattle, I read a lot in the local
>papers about disputes between Boeing and Airbus, and I suspect similar
>issues are reported on where they have a local impact. Whether all
>this amounts to a trade "war" is a matter of definition.
Might I suggest that the "gray lady" isn't what she used to be as an
unbiased news source. You might pick up the Wall Street Journal once
or twice a week for more about world trade relations. And, it was the
WTO, not the EU that pointed out that the steel tariff was a treaty
violation leading to its repeal.
Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
"Phantom Flights, Bangkok Nights"
Both from Smithsonian Books
***www.thunderchief.org
|
|
|
| Richard Neidich |
True that it was the WTO and in that case it was a mistake to withdraw.
There were many an appeals process that would have had to been exhausted by
challangers. In the end the US Steel industry has been hurt for years by
countries that subsidize steel exports. It has destroyed may a US Steel
Company. Bush should not have backed down.
"Ed Rasimus" <rasimusNOSPAM@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:b5rmi05r3cauld183jbt4bp7k6t8ubd0p6@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 16:03:28 GMT, Vino <ifw416@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 14:25:44 GMT, "Anders Tørneskog"
> ><sredna.goksenrot@c2i.net> wrote:
> >>>
> >>He may be in error. I think, oth, that I've seen something about that
the
> >>Bush administration has expressly forbidden any reports and/or TV
footage on
> >>body bags coming from Irak?
> >>It isn't always easy to sort out what's true or not about reports from
the
> >>other side of the pond - could you confirm?
> >>Anders
> >>
> >Partly. There is no way any administration could forbid "reports"
> >about such things. We still have a free (if sometimes gullible) press
> >over here. What the current administration has done is to keep the
> >press (including photographers) away from situations where flag-draped
> >coffins (not body bags) would be visible. A woman who was a private
> >contractor was fired, along with her husband, for taking photographs
> >inside a transport plane that contained several dozen flag-draped
> >coffins. Such prohibitions have not been used in the past and stand in
> >stark contrast to practices in the UK, where members of the Royal
> >Family often attend the unloading of transport planes containing
> >bodies of soldiers killed in action. AFAIK, our president has yet to
> >attend any ceremony honoring US soldiers killed in action. The only
> >conclusion that I can draw from all this is that it is an attempt to
> >hide the true cost (and I'm not talking about dollars) of the Iraq war
> >from the American people.
>
> Sorry, but you'd be way wrong regarding the President's involvement
> with the returning active force, wounded, hospitalized and deceased.
> He's been several times to Colorado where he spent considerable
> one-on-one time (not a photo-op!) with families from Fort Carson who
> lost members in the 3rd ACR, the 3rd Bde/4 ID, and the support units.
> He's also been to Fort Hood for similar purposes as well as meeting
> several of the returning aircraft with those who have lost their
> lives. He's visited the hospitals and there's been a number of
> back-channel photos passed from vet to vet showing him running with
> one of the rehabilitating amputees, talking quietly with wounded, and
> embracing family members.
>
> These events shouldn't be about the publicity, but about the sympathy
> for loss and respect for the sacrfices made.
>
> The cost (not about $$) is very visible in terms of the daily
> newspapers.
> >
> >Regarding Ian's comment on a trade war between the USA and Europe,
> >trade disputes generally don't get much coverage in the newspapers, at
> >least the ones I read (including the New York Times) and rarely any at
> >all on TV. An exception was when the current administration put higher
> >tariffs on imported steel several months back to protect domestic
> >producers. The EU threatened retaliation on a range of US products and
> >the tariffs were dropped. Living in Seattle, I read a lot in the local
> >papers about disputes between Boeing and Airbus, and I suspect similar
> >issues are reported on where they have a local impact. Whether all
> >this amounts to a trade "war" is a matter of definition.
>
> Might I suggest that the "gray lady" isn't what she used to be as an
> unbiased news source. You might pick up the Wall Street Journal once
> or twice a week for more about world trade relations. And, it was the
> WTO, not the EU that pointed out that the steel tariff was a treaty
> violation leading to its repeal.
>
>
> Ed Rasimus
> Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
> "When Thunder Rolled"
> "Phantom Flights, Bangkok Nights"
> Both from Smithsonian Books
> ***www.thunderchief.org
|
|
|
| Ian Hoare |
Salut/Hi Steve Grant,
le/on 24 Aug 2004 09:40:15 EDT, tu disais/you said:-
>"Ian Hoare" <ianhoare@angelfire.com> wrote in message
>news:1pqki0l5k5b8rc05bj4p3o05782438d0r7@4ax.com...
>>
>> At the moment, we're in the middle of
>> quite a serious trade war between Europe and the USA, though it may be
>> that your newspapers and TV news reports have failed to tell you about it.
>
>Your pretension and condescension are breathtaking.
If that's the case, perhaps you would care to tell us what you know about
the current trade war between the USA and Europe. Dick Neidich has freely
admitted he wasn't aware of one.
Or are you saying that I'm wrong in suggesting that US newspapers are more
concerned about the appearance of Ms Jackson's mammary appendages on TV than
on matter of world Trade.
Or are you simply lashing out from general anti-Europeanism.
--
All the Best
Ian Hoare
http://www.souvigne.com
mailbox full to avoid spam. try me at website
|
|
|
| Richard Neidich |
I am aware of the fact I cannot get raw milk, non aged cheese. :-(
I am not aware of any other trade issues.
"Ian Hoare" <ianhoare@angelfire.com> wrote in message
news:rlmmi0hakjsc99kn1nsl4cklu83qucc1s0@4ax.com...
> Salut/Hi Steve Grant,
>
> le/on 24 Aug 2004 09:40:15 EDT, tu disais/you said:-
>
> >"Ian Hoare" <ianhoare@angelfire.com> wrote in message
> >news:1pqki0l5k5b8rc05bj4p3o05782438d0r7@4ax.com...
> >>
> >> At the moment, we're in the middle of
> >> quite a serious trade war between Europe and the USA, though it may be
> >> that your newspapers and TV news reports have failed to tell you about
it.
> >
> >Your pretension and condescension are breathtaking.
>
> If that's the case, perhaps you would care to tell us what you know about
> the current trade war between the USA and Europe. Dick Neidich has freely
> admitted he wasn't aware of one.
>
> Or are you saying that I'm wrong in suggesting that US newspapers are more
> concerned about the appearance of Ms Jackson's mammary appendages on TV
than
> on matter of world Trade.
>
> Or are you simply lashing out from general anti-Europeanism.
> --
> All the Best
> Ian Hoare
> http://www.souvigne.com
> mailbox full to avoid spam. try me at website
|
|
|
| Michael Pronay |
Vino <ifw416@yahoo.com> wrote:
> the Chablians(?)
Since the French term is "les chablisiens", I'd opt for
"Chablisians".
M.
|
|
|
| Michael Pronay |
"Richard Neidich" <rneidich@REMOVEearthlink.net> wrote:
> I am aware of the fact I cannot get raw milk, non aged cheese.
> :-(
My sincere condolescence ...
> I am not aware of any other trade issues.
No vin jaune in the USA, since the traditional clavelin bottle of
620 ml is not accepted. In Europe France has succeeded to have an
exception from EU rules.
M.
|
|
|
| Bill |
Richard Neidich wrote:
> Ed, I was told that embedded media had limitations on what they were allowed
> to report and when they were allowed with regards to dead, injured. Many
> cases it was to allow for families to be notified first and to protect their
> names.
There was a case of nurse on a plane with body bags and wounded personnel
who took pictures of the body bags being loaded and in flight. Her pictures
ended up in the news media and she got booted out of the military. There
was no way that it interfered with notification of relatives. It was
just bad press for Bush.
|
|
|
| Bill |
Mike Tommasi wrote:
>>I don't think we get all the news.
> Hi Dick
> All this is OT, so I hope it ends soon, here is what could be a
> concluding statement :
> I think you are right, having the opportunity to visit the US every
> 2-3 months, I now know for sure that you do not get all the news. But
> wanna know something? We don't either ! ;-)))
Soon after the war ended, the BBC came out with a very strong statement
about how FOX news was distorting the news in the US in favor of Bush.
Ruppert Murdock who owns Fox has fallen out of love with Tony Blair and
it slanting the news in the opposite direction in the UK.
Now how could PinkChablis infringe on an EU name?
|
|
|
| Anders Tørneskog |
"Michael Pronay" <me@privacy.net> skrev i melding
news:Xns954FC497E90CBgmxat@pronay.com...
> "Richard Neidich" <rneidich@REMOVEearthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > I am aware of the fact I cannot get raw milk, non aged cheese.
> > :-(
>
> My sincere condolescence ...
>
> > I am not aware of any other trade issues.
>
> No vin jaune in the USA, since the traditional clavelin bottle of
> 620 ml is not accepted. In Europe France has succeeded to have an
> exception from EU rules.
>
Am I silly when I ask why they don't fill it in 750ml bottles and do away
with any problems? OK, the size is traditional - and so what? What
matters is the wine, isn't it?
Anders
|
|
|
| Richard Neidich |
What is this wine that we cannot get cause its not a 750 ml.
I missed that and do not understand "since the traditional clavelin bottle
of
> 620 ml is not accepted"'
They can import any size they want if they have in importer I thought.
Perhaps we just don't undertand that size?
"Anders Tørneskog" <sredna.goksenrot@c2i.net> wrote in message
news:vDOWc.607$8c.56040@juliett.dax.net...
>
> "Michael Pronay" <me@privacy.net> skrev i melding
> news:Xns954FC497E90CBgmxat@pronay.com...
> > "Richard Neidich" <rneidich@REMOVEearthlink.net> wrote:
> >
> > > I am aware of the fact I cannot get raw milk, non aged cheese.
> > > :-(
> >
> > My sincere condolescence ...
> >
> > > I am not aware of any other trade issues.
> >
> > No vin jaune in the USA, since the traditional clavelin bottle of
> > 620 ml is not accepted. In Europe France has succeeded to have an
> > exception from EU rules.
> >
> Am I silly when I ask why they don't fill it in 750ml bottles and do away
> with any problems? OK, the size is traditional - and so what? What
> matters is the wine, isn't it?
> Anders
>
>
|
|
|
| Vino |
On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 10:36:16 -0600, Ed Rasimus
<rasimusNOSPAM@adelphia.net> wrote:
>
>Might I suggest that the "gray lady" isn't what she used to be as an
>unbiased news source. You might pick up the Wall Street Journal once
>or twice a week for more about world trade relations. And, it was the
>WTO, not the EU that pointed out that the steel tariff was a treaty
>violation leading to its repeal.
>
I *do* read the WSJ regularly and agree that its *news* section
probably does a better job of covering trade issues than any other US
newspaper (including the NYT). But its *editorial* section is pure
drivel.
The WTO ruled that the tariffs were illegal and it was on that basis
that the EU threatened retaliation. That was what forced repeal of the
tariffs, not the mere fact that the WTO had declared them illegal.
Vino
To reply, add "x" between
letters and numbers of
e-mail address.
|
|
|
| Vino |
On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 19:39:44 GMT, Bill <william.loftin@verizon.net>
wrote:
>Richard Neidich wrote:
>> Ed, I was told that embedded media had limitations on what they were allowed
>> to report and when they were allowed with regards to dead, injured. Many
>> cases it was to allow for families to be notified first and to protect their
>> names.
>
>There was a case of nurse on a plane with body bags and wounded personnel
>who took pictures of the body bags being loaded and in flight. Her pictures
>ended up in the news media and she got booted out of the military. There
>was no way that it interfered with notification of relatives. It was
>just bad press for Bush.
>
I can't say for sure but I suspect that this is a reference to a
situation that I described in a separate posting. The photographer was
employed by a private contractor and the photographs were of
flag-draped coffins, not body bags. Whether it was bad press for Bush
depends on one's point of view. To me, it was simply a visual reminder
of the *true* cost of the war. No names were mentioned so there is no
way it could have interfered with notification of relatives.
Vino
To reply, add "x" between
letters and numbers of
e-mail address.
|
|
|
| Vino |
On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 17:15:21 +0200, Ian Hoare <ianhoare@angelfire.com>
wrote:
>"mammary appendages"
Hmm... Interesting euphemism.
Vino
To reply, add "x" between
letters and numbers of
e-mail address.
|
|
|
| Michael Pronay |
Bill <william.loftin@verizon.net> wrote:
> Now how could PinkChablis infringe on an EU name?
How would PinkNapa infringe on an US name?
M.
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| Michael Pronay |
"Anders Tørneskog" <sredna.goksenrot@c2i.net> wrote:
>> No vin jaune in the USA, since the traditional clavelin bottle
>> of 620 ml is not accepted. In Europe France has succeeded to
>> have an exception from EU rules.
> Am I silly when I ask why they don't fill it in 750ml bottles
> and do away with any problems?
Ask the AOC/INAO authorities. Afaik, they *have* to bottle it this
way.
M.
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| Bill |
Michael Pronay wrote:
> Bill <william.loftin@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>>Now how could PinkChablis infringe on an EU name?
>
> How would PinkNapa infringe on an US name?
> M.
No more than Screw Kappa Nappa which is has just been reviewed
by the Wine Speculator. I only have problems with one name that
was changed and that is Grange Hermitage. My fight with names
like Chablis, Rhine and Sauterne started back about 1965. New
York state wines were using those names. On a vacation back then
it was all that was available to me so I bought one of each.
The Chablis tasted like a nice Bernkasteler, the Sauterne tasted
much like a heavily oaked California Chardonnay and the Rhine
was a very sweet desert wine. I think that I have been campaigning
against such names on US wines ever since then.
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