| Steph G.B |
A little question from a beginner (me) :)
Alot of recipes i have call for Veal stock, brown stock or whatever other
kind of stock. My question is this: What do you guys do? do you always
make your own stock from scratch?
I know there's a difference between stock (made with bones) and broth (made
with the actual meat), but can one be a substitute for the other?
Thanks in advance.
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| PENMART01 |
> "Steph G.B" doodles:
>
>A little question from a beginner (me) :)
>
>Alot of recipes i have call for Veal stock,
"Alot"?
---= BOYCOTT FRANCE (belgium) GERMANY--SPAIN =---
---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =---
*********
"Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation."
Sheldon
````````````
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| Peter Aitken |
"Steph G.B" <Epica@nl.com> wrote in message
news:e4Pbd.33400$ei3.1090677@wagner.videotron.net...
> A little question from a beginner (me) :)
>
> Alot of recipes i have call for Veal stock, brown stock or whatever other
> kind of stock. My question is this: What do you guys do? do you always
> make your own stock from scratch?
>
> I know there's a difference between stock (made with bones) and broth
(made
> with the actual meat), but can one be a substitute for the other?
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
>
The stock/broth distinction youu mention is an artificial one. Some people
use it but it is really meaningless. For example, if I simmer a whole
chicken - meat and bones - would I end up with stock or broth? The terms are
usually used interchangeably.
Making your own is always better (assuming you do it right!) but not always
feasible. Fortunately there are some decent commercial stocks available.
Swanson's chicken stock is surprisingly good. Their beef stock is not as
good but is still OK. There are also condensed products like demi glace gold
which takes veal stock and reduces it to a jelly - you then dissolve it for
use. Probably needless to say, but bullion cubes should be avoided like the
plague.
--
Peter Aitken
Remove the crap from my email address before using.
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| Kevintsheehy |
Steph G.B wrote (10/15/2004):
<snip>
>Alot of recipes i have call for Veal stock, brown stock or
>whatever other kind of stock. My question is this: What do
>you guys do? do you always make your own stock from scratch?
I make chicken and beef stock on a rotating basis every
second to third week, except in the summer. I end up with
about 2 to 2-1/2 quarts each time. That may sound like a lot
for home use for 2 (usually) people, but I go through it pretty
quickly, between soup, sauce, cooking liquid for rice, bulgur,
etc.
I keep several containers of supermarket broth on hand in case
I run low on my own. I agree with the poster (Peter, I believe)
who said, as I recall, that the chicken is better than the beef,
but the beef is still pretty good.
I don't make my own veal stock. Many recipes that call for veal
stock say that you can substitute chicken stock. This seems to
work okay, although I sense that people with palates more di-
scerning than mine might disapprove.
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| Suuzzee |
Peter Aitken <paitken@CRAPnc.rr.com> wrote
> "Steph G.B" <Epica@nl.com> wrote
> > A little question from a beginner (me) :)
> >
> > Alot of recipes i have call for Veal stock, brown stock or whatever
other
> > kind of stock. My question is this: What do you guys do? do you
always
> > make your own stock from scratch?
> > I know there's a difference between stock (made with bones) and broth
> (made
> > with the actual meat), but can one be a substitute for the other?
> > Thanks in advance.
>
> The stock/broth distinction youu mention is an artificial one. Some people
> use it but it is really meaningless. For example, if I simmer a whole
> chicken - meat and bones - would I end up with stock or broth? The terms
are
> usually used interchangeably.
>
> Making your own is always better (assuming you do it right!) but not
always
> feasible. Fortunately there are some decent commercial stocks available.
> Swanson's chicken stock is surprisingly good. Their beef stock is not as
> good but is still OK. There are also condensed products like demi glace
gold
> which takes veal stock and reduces it to a jelly - you then dissolve it
for
> use. Probably needless to say, but bullion cubes should be avoided like
the
> plague.
> Peter Aitken
When I was a kid, Campbell Soup used to sell both chicken and beef consumme
or consomme or
however the heck you spell it. Is this stuff being called demi glace gold
now? I have looked and
looked for chicken consumme and just can't find it anywhere. I do make it
several times during the
winter but it sure would be nice just to open up a can now and again. Any
ideas where it can be
purchased? Suz
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| Peter Aitken |
"Suuzzee" <suuzzee5@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:PtRbd.67$_d5.34@fe39.usenetserver.com...
>
> Peter Aitken <paitken@CRAPnc.rr.com> wrote
> > "Steph G.B" <Epica@nl.com> wrote
> > > A little question from a beginner (me) :)
> > >
> > > Alot of recipes i have call for Veal stock, brown stock or whatever
> other
> > > kind of stock. My question is this: What do you guys do? do you
> always
> > > make your own stock from scratch?
> > > I know there's a difference between stock (made with bones) and broth
> > (made
> > > with the actual meat), but can one be a substitute for the other?
> > > Thanks in advance.
> >
> > The stock/broth distinction youu mention is an artificial one. Some
people
> > use it but it is really meaningless. For example, if I simmer a whole
> > chicken - meat and bones - would I end up with stock or broth? The terms
> are
> > usually used interchangeably.
> >
> > Making your own is always better (assuming you do it right!) but not
> always
> > feasible. Fortunately there are some decent commercial stocks available.
> > Swanson's chicken stock is surprisingly good. Their beef stock is not as
> > good but is still OK. There are also condensed products like demi glace
> gold
> > which takes veal stock and reduces it to a jelly - you then dissolve it
> for
> > use. Probably needless to say, but bullion cubes should be avoided like
> the
> > plague.
> > Peter Aitken
>
> When I was a kid, Campbell Soup used to sell both chicken and beef
consumme
> or consomme or
> however the heck you spell it. Is this stuff being called demi glace gold
> now? I have looked and
> looked for chicken consumme and just can't find it anywhere. I do make it
> several times during the
> winter but it sure would be nice just to open up a can now and again. Any
> ideas where it can be
> purchased? Suz
>
No, not the same thing. Demi-glace is the consistency of hard jello and
comes in small "tubs." You dissolve a spoonful in a cup of water to get
something similar in strength to stock, or add directly to sauces etc. for
flavor.
--
Peter Aitken
Remove the crap from my email address before using.
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| Jim Lahue |
Kevintsheehy wrote:
> Steph G.B wrote (10/15/2004):
>
> <snip>
>
>>Alot of recipes i have call for Veal stock, brown stock or
>>whatever other kind of stock. My question is this: What do
>>you guys do? do you always make your own stock from scratch?
>
>
> I make chicken and beef stock on a rotating basis every
> second to third week, except in the summer. I end up with
> about 2 to 2-1/2 quarts each time. That may sound like a lot
> for home use for 2 (usually) people, but I go through it pretty
> quickly, between soup, sauce, cooking liquid for rice, bulgur,
> etc.
>
> I keep several containers of supermarket broth on hand in case
> I run low on my own. I agree with the poster (Peter, I believe)
> who said, as I recall, that the chicken is better than the beef,
> but the beef is still pretty good.
>
> I don't make my own veal stock. Many recipes that call for veal
> stock say that you can substitute chicken stock. This seems to
> work okay, although I sense that people with palates more di-
> scerning than mine might disapprove.
I make my own beef and chicken stock because I can reduce it without
ending up with something that is far too salty to be used. Veal bones
are hard to find so I usually use a mixture of beef and chicken stock in
place of the veal stock.
Jim Lahue
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| Jim Lahue |
Kevintsheehy wrote:
> Steph G.B wrote (10/15/2004):
>
> <snip>
>
>>Alot of recipes i have call for Veal stock, brown stock or
>>whatever other kind of stock. My question is this: What do
>>you guys do? do you always make your own stock from scratch?
>
>
> I make chicken and beef stock on a rotating basis every
> second to third week, except in the summer. I end up with
> about 2 to 2-1/2 quarts each time. That may sound like a lot
> for home use for 2 (usually) people, but I go through it pretty
> quickly, between soup, sauce, cooking liquid for rice, bulgur,
> etc.
>
> I keep several containers of supermarket broth on hand in case
> I run low on my own. I agree with the poster (Peter, I believe)
> who said, as I recall, that the chicken is better than the beef,
> but the beef is still pretty good.
>
> I don't make my own veal stock. Many recipes that call for veal
> stock say that you can substitute chicken stock. This seems to
> work okay, although I sense that people with palates more di-
> scerning than mine might disapprove.
I make my own beef and chicken stock because I can reduce it without
ending up with something that is far too salty to be used. Veal bones
are hard to find so I usually use a mixture of beef and chicken stock in
place of the veal stock.
Jim Lahue
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| Pinot |
How do you people make your stock ? Cooking only bones, or
do you add something ? I read about a rabbit stock with
white wine, rosemary leaves, bayleaf, onion, french brandy,
even one egg in the stock, rabbit's heart, liver, kidneys,
and meat from two legs. Anyone have a good recipe for a
beef/chicken stock soup to share ?
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| Hahabogus |
Pinot <me@privacy.net> wrote in news:juu742-dk.ln1@user.uni-berlin.de:
> How do you people make your stock ? Cooking only bones, or
> do you add something ? I read about a rabbit stock with
> white wine, rosemary leaves, bayleaf, onion, french brandy,
> even one egg in the stock, rabbit's heart, liver, kidneys,
> and meat from two legs. Anyone have a good recipe for a
> beef/chicken stock soup to share ?
>
My method:
Get a big heavy bottomed pot. Put a chicken in it. Cover the chicken with
water by about 1 inch or 2. Set the burner to a medium simmer setting. Get
a large onion (skin on), cut it in half put in the pot,same with several
ribs of celery (with leaves) and a large carrot,and maybe a parsnip don't
forget several cloves of garlic.. In a tea ball put 10 or so peppercorns,
several bay leafs, any any herbs you'd like (oregano,thyme,rosmary etc...)
hang that on the side of the pot. Do NOT add salt! Watch the pot till it
comes up to a simmer. Reduce heat till barely simmering. After about 30
minutes you can remove the chicken and take off the flesh you'd like for
other reasons...return carcass to pot and contiue to cook reducing liquids
by about 1/3. Strain out the used up vegies herbs and bones, discard. Defat
the stock. Make Soup,freeze or whatever you want to do with it.
Sometimes I fork a lemon 5 or 6 times and chuck it in the pot too.
Sometimes I add a splash of sherry to the finished stock.
Usually I defat by letting the stock sit in the fridge over night.
This is good for about 2 qts stock. Plus you have poached chicken for
salads, soups etc...
--
Starchless in Manitoba.
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| doug ventura |
Hello All,
I offer to supplement the below recipe with the following tips...which have
worked very well for me:
1. I usually cut off the fat flaps that sometimes exist around the cavity
hole. Keep them if you are going to honor tip #7.
2. Get the best chicken you can find. I like Bell and Evans
3. Use the giblets, but discard the liver (too strong)
4. Consider adding some ginger (the root, not the powder or candied
stuff)...it add a nice, subtle asian sweetness
5. Just after the stock comes up to heat, be sure to skim off the scum the
rises to the top
6. A tea ball is usefull....but if your going to strain it later, why
bother? Also, strain through cheese cloth or towel....most strainers would
allow unwanted bits to flow through.
7. If you choose to defat the cold stock...don't throw it out...it's
GOLD!!!!
Cheers,
NY Giants Fan In Boston
"Hahabogus" <invalid@invalid.null> wrote in message
news:Xns95847D92E59BEhahabogus@205.200.16.73...
> Pinot <me@privacy.net> wrote in news:juu742-dk.ln1@user.uni-berlin.de:
>
> > How do you people make your stock ? Cooking only bones, or
> > do you add something ? I read about a rabbit stock with
> > white wine, rosemary leaves, bayleaf, onion, french brandy,
> > even one egg in the stock, rabbit's heart, liver, kidneys,
> > and meat from two legs. Anyone have a good recipe for a
> > beef/chicken stock soup to share ?
> >
> My method:
>
> Get a big heavy bottomed pot. Put a chicken in it. Cover the chicken with
> water by about 1 inch or 2. Set the burner to a medium simmer setting. Get
> a large onion (skin on), cut it in half put in the pot,same with several
> ribs of celery (with leaves) and a large carrot,and maybe a parsnip don't
> forget several cloves of garlic.. In a tea ball put 10 or so peppercorns,
> several bay leafs, any any herbs you'd like (oregano,thyme,rosmary etc...)
> hang that on the side of the pot. Do NOT add salt! Watch the pot till it
> comes up to a simmer. Reduce heat till barely simmering. After about 30
> minutes you can remove the chicken and take off the flesh you'd like for
> other reasons...return carcass to pot and contiue to cook reducing liquids
> by about 1/3. Strain out the used up vegies herbs and bones, discard.
Defat
> the stock. Make Soup,freeze or whatever you want to do with it.
> Sometimes I fork a lemon 5 or 6 times and chuck it in the pot too.
> Sometimes I add a splash of sherry to the finished stock.
> Usually I defat by letting the stock sit in the fridge over night.
> This is good for about 2 qts stock. Plus you have poached chicken for
> salads, soups etc...
>
>
>
> --
> Starchless in Manitoba.
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| Pinot |
doug ventura wrote:
> Hello All,
>
> I offer to supplement the below recipe with the following tips...which have
> worked very well for me:
>
> 1. I usually cut off the fat flaps that sometimes exist around the cavity
> hole. Keep them if you are going to honor tip #7.
> 2. Get the best chicken you can find. I like Bell and Evans
> 3. Use the giblets, but discard the liver (too strong)
> 4. Consider adding some ginger (the root, not the powder or candied
> stuff)...it add a nice, subtle asian sweetness
> 5. Just after the stock comes up to heat, be sure to skim off the scum the
> rises to the top
> 6. A tea ball is usefull....but if your going to strain it later, why
> bother? Also, strain through cheese cloth or towel....most strainers would
> allow unwanted bits to flow through.
> 7. If you choose to defat the cold stock...don't throw it out...it's
> GOLD!!!!
>
> Cheers,
>
> NY Giants Fan In Boston
>
> "Hahabogus" <invalid@invalid.null> wrote in message
> news:Xns95847D92E59BEhahabogus@205.200.16.73...
>
>>Pinot <me@privacy.net> wrote in news:juu742-dk.ln1@user.uni-berlin.de:
>>
>>
>>>How do you people make your stock ? Cooking only bones, or
>>>do you add something ? I read about a rabbit stock with
>>>white wine, rosemary leaves, bayleaf, onion, french brandy,
>>>even one egg in the stock, rabbit's heart, liver, kidneys,
>>>and meat from two legs. Anyone have a good recipe for a
>>>beef/chicken stock soup to share ?
>>>
>>
>>My method:
>>
>>Get a big heavy bottomed pot. Put a chicken in it. Cover the chicken with
>>water by about 1 inch or 2. Set the burner to a medium simmer setting. Get
>>a large onion (skin on), cut it in half put in the pot,same with several
>>ribs of celery (with leaves) and a large carrot,and maybe a parsnip don't
>>forget several cloves of garlic.. In a tea ball put 10 or so peppercorns,
>>several bay leafs, any any herbs you'd like (oregano,thyme,rosmary etc...)
>>hang that on the side of the pot. Do NOT add salt! Watch the pot till it
>>comes up to a simmer. Reduce heat till barely simmering. After about 30
>>minutes you can remove the chicken and take off the flesh you'd like for
>>other reasons...return carcass to pot and contiue to cook reducing liquids
>>by about 1/3. Strain out the used up vegies herbs and bones, discard.
>
> Defat
>
>>the stock. Make Soup,freeze or whatever you want to do with it.
>>Sometimes I fork a lemon 5 or 6 times and chuck it in the pot too.
>>Sometimes I add a splash of sherry to the finished stock.
>>Usually I defat by letting the stock sit in the fridge over night.
>>This is good for about 2 qts stock. Plus you have poached chicken for
>>salads, soups etc...
Thank you for replies. I used to make cca. 2 liters of a
beef stock cooking (cca. 1 hour) only bones with a 2
bayleafs, a small spoon of a black pepper, and an onion cut
in rings dry-roasted on stove's burner until onion surface
become real black. It worked for me. I'll try your recipes,
they seem tasty. Thank you.
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| Andy Katz |
On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 12:29:55 GMT, "Peter Aitken"
<paitken@CRAPnc.rr.com> wrote:
>The stock/broth distinction youu mention is an artificial one. Some people
>use it but it is really meaningless. For example, if I simmer a whole
>chicken - meat and bones - would I end up with stock or broth? The terms are
>usually used interchangeably.
That's not my experience, Peter. Stock is usually defined as having
more collagen from bone marrow and thus greater body, than broth,
which is purely liquid. Cool a good veal or chicken stock, and it
thickens coniderably, while a broth, which is more similar to
bouillon.
Vegetable stock, of course, is really a misnomer. It's really a broth.
>Making your own is always better (assuming you do it right!) but not always
>feasible. Fortunately there are some decent commercial stocks available.
>Swanson's chicken stock is surprisingly good. Their beef stock is not as
>good but is still OK. There are also condensed products like demi glace gold
>which takes veal stock and reduces it to a jelly - you then dissolve it for
>use. Probably needless to say, but bullion cubes should be avoided like the
>plague.
Absolutely, yes.
Andy Katz
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| Peter Aitken |
"Andy Katz" <amkatz@earthnospamlink.net> wrote in message
news:dp28n0teerutlg60l690nfcd7r7jjj476b@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 12:29:55 GMT, "Peter Aitken"
> <paitken@CRAPnc.rr.com> wrote:
>
> >The stock/broth distinction youu mention is an artificial one. Some
people
> >use it but it is really meaningless. For example, if I simmer a whole
> >chicken - meat and bones - would I end up with stock or broth? The terms
are
> >usually used interchangeably.
>
> That's not my experience, Peter. Stock is usually defined as having
> more collagen from bone marrow and thus greater body, than broth,
> which is purely liquid. Cool a good veal or chicken stock, and it
> thickens coniderably, while a broth, which is more similar to
> bouillon.
>
First of all, bone marrow does not contain collagen - it comes from the
cartilage, tendons, etc. But I stand by my comment. Some people do make the
distinction between stock and broth but many others do not - and this
includes many cookbooks I consulted. So it is wrong to claim it is "proper"
usage to make the distinction.
And what about my whole chicken example? When I make stock this way, or from
whole chicken legs, it most certainly gels when cold. It's made from meat
*and* bones, so where does it fall? And while I haven't tried it, I bet if I
made stock from just chicken skin, which contains collagen, it would gel -
but no bones are used. Stock or broth? And if you make stock from just bones
that have no meat on them it will be pretty flavorless. See what I mean?
From the perspective of the cook who is using it, the distinction you draw
between stock and broth is meaningless so why bother?
--
Peter Aitken
Remove the crap from my email address before using.
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| PENMART01 |
Peter Aitken" writes:
>
>>"Andy Katz" wrote
>>"Peter Aitken"
>> >
>> >The stock/broth distinction youu mention is an artificial one. Some
>people
>> >use it but it is really meaningless. For example, if I simmer a whole
>> >chicken - meat and bones - would I end up with stock or broth? The terms
>are
>> >usually used interchangeably.
>>
>> That's not my experience, Peter. Stock is usually defined as having
>> more collagen from bone marrow and thus greater body, than broth,
>> which is purely liquid. Cool a good veal or chicken stock, and it
>> thickens coniderably, while a broth, which is more similar to
>> bouillon.
>>
>
>First of all, bone marrow does not contain collagen - it comes from the
>cartilage, tendons, etc. But I stand by my comment. Some people do make the
>distinction between stock and broth but many others do not - and this
>includes many cookbooks I consulted. So it is wrong to claim it is "proper"
>usage to make the distinction.
>
>And what about my whole chicken example? When I make stock this way, or from
>whole chicken legs, it most certainly gels when cold. It's made from meat
>*and* bones, so where does it fall? And while I haven't tried it, I bet if I
>made stock from just chicken skin, which contains collagen, it would gel -
>but no bones are used. Stock or broth? And if you make stock from just bones
>that have no meat on them it will be pretty flavorless. See what I mean?
>From the perspective of the cook who is using it, the distinction you draw
>between stock and broth is meaningless so why bother?
Stock, broth, and bouillion are synonymous... the resultant strained liquid
from cooking meat and/or vegetables. Being gelatinous is not a requirement...
vegetarian stock doesn't contain any gelatine yet is stock nevertheless.
However, consommé is different, that's *clarified* stock.
---= BOYCOTT FRANCE (belgium) GERMANY--SPAIN =---
---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =---
*********
"Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation."
Sheldon
````````````
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