| Pinky Pinkerton |
Why does this woman sniff every other ingredient while she cooks? That
looks unsanitary!
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| Zywicki |
Of course she's unsanitary! She's Barefoot. The title gives it away.
The show is meant to be ironic, a sort of dieting aid. No one would
confuse it for a real cooking show.
Greg Zywicki
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| Dave Smith |
Pinky Pinkerton wrote:
> Why does this woman sniff every other ingredient while she cooks? That
> looks unsanitary!
What's the matter with sniffing the ingredients? It's not like she is
blowing her nose on the food. Smell is an important component of a good
meal and it can give you an indication of the taste you can expect,
especially when using herbs and spices.
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| Vox Humana |
"Pinky Pinkerton" <pp@pp.com> wrote in message
news:gdYPd.12351$oO.9826@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> Why does this woman sniff every other ingredient while she cooks? That
> looks unsanitary!
Sometimes you just can't win. Most of the posts not dealing with her weight
are critical of how clean and barren her kitchen appears. Now you think she
is unsanitary. I wonder if there is some subconscious prejudice being
expressed. After all, aren't all fat people lazy, stupid, and dirty? Maybe
that's why her impeccably clean kitchen grabs people's attention. It causes
some cognitive dissonance between what they see and what they want to
believe.
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| Dog3 |
"Vox Humana" <vhumana@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:oG4Qd.25946$XY5.6042@fe2.columbus.rr.com:
>
> "Pinky Pinkerton" <pp@pp.com> wrote in message
> news:gdYPd.12351$oO.9826@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
>> Why does this woman sniff every other ingredient while she cooks?
>> That looks unsanitary!
>
> Sometimes you just can't win. Most of the posts not dealing with her
> weight are critical of how clean and barren her kitchen appears. Now
> you think she is unsanitary. I wonder if there is some subconscious
> prejudice being expressed. After all, aren't all fat people lazy,
> stupid, and dirty? Maybe that's why her impeccably clean kitchen
> grabs people's attention. It causes some cognitive dissonance between
> what they see and what they want to believe.
Her impeccably clean kitchen is most likely cleaned by staff between
segements of the show while taping. Sniffing food, herbs, spices etc. is an
integral part of cooking and I can not see where that could be interpreted
as unsanitary. BTW, weight does not define a person.
Michael
--
Opinions founded on prejudice are always sustained with the greatest
violence.
-- Hebrew proverb
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| Vox Humana |
"Dog3" <uhoh@ajfl;ajklsd;ajlds.nutz> wrote in message
news:Xns95FD7493330E1abtrulynastyevil@69.28.186.121...
> "Vox Humana" <vhumana@hotmail.com> wrote in
> news:oG4Qd.25946$XY5.6042@fe2.columbus.rr.com:
>
> >
> > "Pinky Pinkerton" <pp@pp.com> wrote in message
> > news:gdYPd.12351$oO.9826@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> >> Why does this woman sniff every other ingredient while she cooks?
> >> That looks unsanitary!
> >
> > Sometimes you just can't win. Most of the posts not dealing with her
> > weight are critical of how clean and barren her kitchen appears. Now
> > you think she is unsanitary. I wonder if there is some subconscious
> > prejudice being expressed. After all, aren't all fat people lazy,
> > stupid, and dirty? Maybe that's why her impeccably clean kitchen
> > grabs people's attention. It causes some cognitive dissonance between
> > what they see and what they want to believe.
>
> Her impeccably clean kitchen is most likely cleaned by staff between
> segements of the show while taping. Sniffing food, herbs, spices etc. is
an
> integral part of cooking and I can not see where that could be interpreted
> as unsanitary. BTW, weight does not define a person.
I agree, but that is the only reason I can think of why people are so upset
because her place is clean.
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| Nancy Young |
"Vox Humana" <vhumana@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:GG5Qd.25976$XY5.22077@fe2.columbus.rr.com...
> I agree, but that is the only reason I can think of why people are so
> upset
> because her place is clean.
I sure hope you don't include me in that group, I'm not even remotely
upset. Why would I be? I'm not eating it. My point was that I sniff
stuff without sticking my nose right on it. I have a terrible sense of
smell and even I can smell stuff without putting it right up against my
nose. That's all. No upset.
nancy
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| Zywicki |
My guess it's the way she does it. Looking down, making this big
theatrical
sniff, grinning like a jack-o-lantern on X, and then rapturing over how
wonderful
some inane thing like salt or chile powder is.
She's so extremely irritating. Which is why, yes, I do change the
chanel.
Greg Zywicki
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| Vox Humana |
"Nancy Young" <qwerty@monmouth.com> wrote in message
news:cuqt35$h2p$1@news.monmouth.com...
>
> "Vox Humana" <vhumana@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:GG5Qd.25976$XY5.22077@fe2.columbus.rr.com...
>
> > I agree, but that is the only reason I can think of why people are so
> > upset
> > because her place is clean.
>
> I sure hope you don't include me in that group, I'm not even remotely
> upset. Why would I be? I'm not eating it. My point was that I sniff
> stuff without sticking my nose right on it. I have a terrible sense of
> smell and even I can smell stuff without putting it right up against my
> nose. That's all. No upset.
Have you lamented that her kitchen is too clean?
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| Pinky Pinkerton |
You are correct, Greg. It's the way she inhales the stuff that is a turn
off.
Zywicki wrote:
> My guess it's the way she does it. Looking down, making this big
> theatrical
> sniff, grinning like a jack-o-lantern on X, and then rapturing over how
> wonderful
> some inane thing like salt or chile powder is.
>
> She's so extremely irritating. Which is why, yes, I do change the
> chanel.
>
> Greg Zywicki
>
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| pennyaline |
Vox Humana wrote:
> "Nancy Young" wrote:
> > I sure hope you don't include me in that group, I'm not even remotely
> > upset. Why would I be? I'm not eating it. My point was that I sniff
> > stuff without sticking my nose right on it. I have a terrible sense of
> > smell and even I can smell stuff without putting it right up against my
> > nose. That's all. No upset.
>
> Have you lamented that her kitchen is too clean?
No, I have. And I don't criticize her pristine surfaces because I'm
distrustful of her cleanliness. I find them suspect because just like her
flour container that's across the room from her work area, it is evidence
that she doesn't cook as she wants us to believe. The layout of that huge
kitchen is awkward, her fridge is full of the toniest hooch and just a
little food(sometimes I think the poor dear needs an intervention), she
slops dripping utensils around and flings ALL of her garbage heedlessly into
the sink. These are the marks of *someone who cooks,* not of a cook.
Yes, I'm the one who calls her a fake.
<she's the self-avowed party princess, caterer and cook... who I noticed
didn't know how to get the paddle connected to her KA... she folds a mean
napkin, though >
Personally, I just love to smell and savor the ingredients as I cook. Just
yesterday, roasting a pork shoulder, I was in fresh marjoram heaven.
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| Vox Humana |
"pennyaline" <nsmitchell@spamspamspamspamspamspamspameggandspam.com> wrote
in message news:2K8Qd.54$QM2.9734@news.uswest.net...
>
> No, I have. And I don't criticize her pristine surfaces because I'm
> distrustful of her cleanliness. I find them suspect because just like her
> flour container that's across the room from her work area, it is evidence
> that she doesn't cook as she wants us to believe. The layout of that huge
> kitchen is awkward, her fridge is full of the toniest hooch and just a
> little food(sometimes I think the poor dear needs an intervention), she
> slops dripping utensils around and flings ALL of her garbage heedlessly
into
> the sink. These are the marks of *someone who cooks,* not of a cook.
Except for the fact that my kitchen isn't large and I don't keep liquor in
the fridge, you could be talking about me. I have an awkwardly designed
kitchen. I keep the flour in my pantry which technically is across the hall
from the kitchen. I also sling garbage into the sink with abandon in
anticipation of sending it down the disposal.
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| Dave Smith |
Vox Humana wrote:
> Except for the fact that my kitchen isn't large and I don't keep liquor in
> the fridge, you could be talking about me. I have an awkwardly designed
> kitchen. I keep the flour in my pantry which technically is across the hall
> from the kitchen. I also sling garbage into the sink with abandon in
> anticipation of sending it down the disposal.
I can't complain too much about the layout of my kitchen. I could do with more
counter space, but that's because the counter I have is cluttered and the truth
of the matter is that if I had more counter space there would be more clutter. I
tend to toss all the bits of garbage into the sink too. I drives my wife nuts. I
have a garbage bag under the sink and a compost bucket on the counter. I just
find it a heck of a lot easier to toss everything into the sink as I go and then
deal with it later. I have to admit that I have some degree of admiration for
those who can cook and clean as they go along. I am working on it.
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| Nancy Young |
"Vox Humana" <vhumana@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:FU6Qd.25993$XY5.11485@fe2.columbus.rr.com...
>
> "Nancy Young" <qwerty@monmouth.com> wrote in message
> news:cuqt35$h2p$1@news.monmouth.com...
>>
>> "Vox Humana" <vhumana@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:GG5Qd.25976$XY5.22077@fe2.columbus.rr.com...
>>
>> > I agree, but that is the only reason I can think of why people are so
>> > upset
>> > because her place is clean.
>>
>> I sure hope you don't include me in that group, I'm not even remotely
>> upset. Why would I be? I'm not eating it. My point was that I sniff
>> stuff without sticking my nose right on it. I have a terrible sense of
>> smell and even I can smell stuff without putting it right up against my
>> nose. That's all. No upset.
>
> Have you lamented that her kitchen is too clean?
? Not me. I only responded to the sniffing thing. I must have missed
something.
nancy
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| Vox Humana |
"Dave Smith" <adavid.smith@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:421121A6.8E0B718E@sympatico.ca...
> Vox Humana wrote:
>
> > Except for the fact that my kitchen isn't large and I don't keep liquor
in
> > the fridge, you could be talking about me. I have an awkwardly designed
> > kitchen. I keep the flour in my pantry which technically is across the
hall
> > from the kitchen. I also sling garbage into the sink with abandon in
> > anticipation of sending it down the disposal.
>
> I can't complain too much about the layout of my kitchen. I could do with
more
> counter space, but that's because the counter I have is cluttered and the
truth
> of the matter is that if I had more counter space there would be more
clutter. I
> tend to toss all the bits of garbage into the sink too. I drives my wife
nuts. I
> have a garbage bag under the sink and a compost bucket on the counter. I
just
> find it a heck of a lot easier to toss everything into the sink as I go
and then
> deal with it later. I have to admit that I have some degree of admiration
for
> those who can cook and clean as they go along. I am working on it.
Part of my clean-as-you-cook strategy is to toss everything into the sink.
I tried tossing everything into the trash compactor, but leaving the draw
open is too inconvenient in a small kitchen.
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| Vox Humana |
"Nancy Young" <qwerty@monmouth.com> wrote in message
news:cur9le$n19$1@news.monmouth.com...
>
> "Vox Humana" <vhumana@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:FU6Qd.25993$XY5.11485@fe2.columbus.rr.com...
> >
> > "Nancy Young" <qwerty@monmouth.com> wrote in message
> > news:cuqt35$h2p$1@news.monmouth.com...
> >>
> >> "Vox Humana" <vhumana@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >> news:GG5Qd.25976$XY5.22077@fe2.columbus.rr.com...
> >>
> >> > I agree, but that is the only reason I can think of why people are so
> >> > upset
> >> > because her place is clean.
> >>
> >> I sure hope you don't include me in that group, I'm not even remotely
> >> upset. Why would I be? I'm not eating it. My point was that I sniff
> >> stuff without sticking my nose right on it. I have a terrible sense of
> >> smell and even I can smell stuff without putting it right up against my
> >> nose. That's all. No upset.
> >
> > Have you lamented that her kitchen is too clean?
>
> ? Not me. I only responded to the sniffing thing. I must have missed
> something.
I guess I'm confused. Your first post to show up on my news reader was the
one addressed to me. I didn't have you in mind because I hadn't seen your
posts on the subject. Do you post under another name? Maybe my newsserver
dropped one of your messages.
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| Michael Odom |
On Mon, 14 Feb 2005 16:51:32 GMT, "Vox Humana" <vhumana@hotmail.com>
wrote:
>
>"Pinky Pinkerton" <pp@pp.com> wrote in message
>news:gdYPd.12351$oO.9826@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
>> Why does this woman sniff every other ingredient while she cooks? That
>> looks unsanitary!
>
>Sometimes you just can't win. Most of the posts not dealing with her weight
>are critical of how clean and barren her kitchen appears. Now you think she
>is unsanitary. I wonder if there is some subconscious prejudice being
>expressed. After all, aren't all fat people lazy, stupid, and dirty? Maybe
>that's why her impeccably clean kitchen grabs people's attention. It causes
>some cognitive dissonance between what they see and what they want to
>believe.
>
Interesting observation, Vox.
Heavy she is, but she also has a lovely face. And that voice! D
wants Ina Garten to record the greeting on our answering machine.
OBFood: I'm going to eat out tonight. Happy Valentine's Day, all.
modom
Only superficial people don't judge by appearances.
-- Oscar Wilde
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| Nancy Young |
"Vox Humana" <vhumana@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:woaQd.26056$XY5.21357@fe2.columbus.rr.com...
>
> "Nancy Young" <qwerty@monmouth.com> wrote in message
>> > Have you lamented that her kitchen is too clean?
>>
>> ? Not me. I only responded to the sniffing thing. I must have missed
>> something.
>
> I guess I'm confused. Your first post to show up on my news reader was
> the
> one addressed to me. I didn't have you in mind because I hadn't seen your
> posts on the subject. Do you post under another name? Maybe my
> newsserver
> dropped one of your messages.
Yeah, I only post under one name. Sorry for the confusion. I didn't say
anything
about the kitchen, all tv kitchens are clean. Wish they'd come to my house.
(smile) nancy
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| Vox Humana |
"Nancy Young" <qwerty@monmouth.com> wrote in message
news:curhro$quc$1@news.monmouth.com...
>
> "Vox Humana" <vhumana@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:woaQd.26056$XY5.21357@fe2.columbus.rr.com...
> >
> > "Nancy Young" <qwerty@monmouth.com> wrote in message
>
> >> > Have you lamented that her kitchen is too clean?
> >>
> >> ? Not me. I only responded to the sniffing thing. I must have missed
> >> something.
> >
> > I guess I'm confused. Your first post to show up on my news reader was
> > the
> > one addressed to me. I didn't have you in mind because I hadn't seen
your
> > posts on the subject. Do you post under another name? Maybe my
> > newsserver
> > dropped one of your messages.
>
> Yeah, I only post under one name. Sorry for the confusion. I didn't say
> anything
> about the kitchen, all tv kitchens are clean. Wish they'd come to my
house.
>
It would be interesting to hear what people would say if any of us were on
TV.
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| Vox Humana |
"Michael Odom" <modom@un-koyote.com> wrote in message
news:l2i2119kil0lkqn4ifj57j8o0re8n3r9bp@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 14 Feb 2005 16:51:32 GMT, "Vox Humana" <vhumana@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Pinky Pinkerton" <pp@pp.com> wrote in message
> >news:gdYPd.12351$oO.9826@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> >> Why does this woman sniff every other ingredient while she cooks? That
> >> looks unsanitary!
> >
> >Sometimes you just can't win. Most of the posts not dealing with her
weight
> >are critical of how clean and barren her kitchen appears. Now you think
she
> >is unsanitary. I wonder if there is some subconscious prejudice being
> >expressed. After all, aren't all fat people lazy, stupid, and dirty?
Maybe
> >that's why her impeccably clean kitchen grabs people's attention. It
causes
> >some cognitive dissonance between what they see and what they want to
> >believe.
> >
> Interesting observation, Vox.
>
> Heavy she is, but she also has a lovely face. And that voice! D
> wants Ina Garten to record the greeting on our answering machine.
>
I was surprised to find that she was a budget analyst in the Carter
Whitehouse. Apparently she left DC to run the Barefoot Contessa which she
built into a thriving business, and then sold. Using the same logic that
people use to defend Emeril, she must know something.
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| pennyaline |
Vox Humana wrote:
> Except for the fact that my kitchen isn't large and I don't keep liquor in
> the fridge, you could be talking about me. I have an awkwardly designed
> kitchen. I keep the flour in my pantry which technically is across the
hall
> from the kitchen. I also sling garbage into the sink with abandon in
> anticipation of sending it down the disposal.
I understand being stuck with the kitchens we have -- I'm in that position
myself. But the BF Contessa is not in that position. She can afford whatever
kitchen she wants, and still "her kitchen" is laid out and stocked and
furnished in a nonsensical fashion considering the credentials she claims.
Again, I maintain that she does not cook. She appears to cook, or seems to
cook and really really wants people to believe that she cooks, but she does
not cook. No one who truly cooks or has cooked for a living would put up
with that "kitchen" of hers.
Further, she slings *everything* into the sink. Not everything can go down
the disposal, but that doesn't seem to bother her (I give greater credence
to Rachael Ray's garbage bowl). And the masses of slop and dripping goo she
blithely slaps down onto her counters and surfaces... the BF Contessa
doesn't clean up after herself, ever. Again, she is someone who doesn't have
to. She would never cut it as a *cook*.
<however, and quite sadly, the appearance of something is confimation enough
that the thing that appears to be, is.>
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| sf |
On 14 Feb 2005 11:15:34 -0800, "Zywicki"
<gregzywicki@cs.com> wrote:
> She's so extremely irritating. Which is why, yes, I do change the
> chanel.
That's your right, however I think she's less annoying than
that skinny Italian female talking head who pretends to like
food.
sf
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| sf |
On Mon, 14 Feb 2005 14:10:24 -0500, "Nancy Young"
<qwerty@monmouth.com> wrote:
> I sure hope you don't include me in that group, I'm not even remotely
> upset. Why would I be? I'm not eating it. My point was that I sniff
> stuff without sticking my nose right on it. I have a terrible sense of
> smell and even I can smell stuff without putting it right up against my
> nose. That's all. No upset.
Let's call it theatrics. Her director probably told her to
do it.
sf
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| sf |
On Mon, 14 Feb 2005 21:50:04 GMT, "Vox Humana"
<vhumana@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I also sling garbage into the sink with abandon in
> anticipation of sending it down the disposal.
Make that two of us!
sf
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| sf |
On Mon, 14 Feb 2005 17:09:42 -0500, Dave Smith
<adavid.smith@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> I can't complain too much about the layout of my kitchen. I could do with more
> counter space, but that's because the counter I have is cluttered and the truth
> of the matter is that if I had more counter space there would be more clutter.
LOLOLOL! Welcome to real life! The only reason why
sooooome counters are (artifically) cleared is "guests".
sf
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| Bob |
Vox Humana wrote:
> Except for the fact that my kitchen isn't large and I don't keep liquor in
> the fridge, you could be talking about me. I have an awkwardly designed
> kitchen. I keep the flour in my pantry which technically is across the
> hall from the kitchen. I also sling garbage into the sink with abandon in
> anticipation of sending it down the disposal.
My kitchen *looks* large, but it really isn't. I've been mulling over the
idea of building a prep kitchen. My garage has a large alcove, about ten
feet by twenty feet, which can be walled off from the garage and opened into
the kitchen. There's already a refrigerator there, but I'd want to add at
least six feet of butcher block counter and a big ol' sink. Has anybody
here tried something like that?
(Come to think of it, a scullery would be nice, too -- and a scullery maid
to go along with it!)
Bob
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| Bob |
Xref: 127.0.0.1 rec.food.cooking:1047878
Vox Humana wrote:
> It would be interesting to hear what people would say if any of
> us were on TV.
"AIEEEEE! What kind of beast *is* that? A Shoggoth?"
(see www.miskatonic.net/pickman/mythos/carson2.html)
Bob
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| Stark |
> Pinky Pinkerton wrote:
>
> > Why does this woman sniff every other ingredient while she cooks? That
> > looks unsanitary!
>
Some folks have a heightened sense of smell and with kitchen
ingredients it can be very pleasurable, even erotic. It can also be
irritable--think of all the cig and cigar-phobes. Frankly I envy them.
My own sense of smell seems kinda simplistic, either on or off; and I
wonder what I'm missing.
Unsanitary? Only if she stuck her nose in the stuff she's sniffing.
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| Nancy Young |
"Vox Humana" <vhumana@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:eDcQd.26087$XY5.19351@fe2.columbus.rr.com...
>
> "Nancy Young" <qwerty@monmouth.com> wrote in message
> news:curhro$quc$1@news.monmouth.com...
>> Yeah, I only post under one name. Sorry for the confusion. I didn't say
>> anything
>> about the kitchen, all tv kitchens are clean. Wish they'd come to my
> house.
> It would be interesting to hear what people would say if any of us were on
> TV.
They would say Look at that refrigerator! Doesn't she ever clean it?? And
what's that stuff in the tupperware in the back? Actually it isn't too bad
now,
and it's been way worse, but it could stand to be cleaned. Dreadful chore.
nancy
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| Zywicki |
Giada? Giada's OK, except for those manhands. She's probably just got
one of
those superhyper personalities that burns calories. Look at her, and
you can see
the wiry Italian little-old-lady she's destined to be. She's a bit
impressed with her
itallianess, but the food looks good and uncomplicated, and she seems
to not take
herself too seriously.
Inna Garten, on the other hand, is a boor. Saw one episode where she
had a special
brunch for her good friend Mr. Zabar, of Gourmet Foodstore Zabar's, who
was her friend
and who she knew well, don't you know? Because they're, like, friends?
You know?
Her and an important guy? Aren't we all impressed by her and envious?
Yuck. So
transparent. Then she proceeded to make some entirley pedestrian fare
while making it
sound like she had invented a new cuisine. She could be Giada's size,
and still she'd have
an enormous head.
Greg Zywicki
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| Nancy Young |
"Zywicki" <gregzywicki@cs.com> wrote in message
news:1108475073.634752.275870@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Giada? Giada's OK, except for those manhands. She's probably just got
> one of
> those superhyper personalities that burns calories. Look at her, and
> you can see
> the wiry Italian little-old-lady she's destined to be. She's a bit
> impressed with her
> itallianess, but the food looks good and uncomplicated, and she seems
> to not take
> herself too seriously.
Her mother isn't fat, either ... not that thin, but still ... guess it's in
the
genes. Did you know her grandfather was Dino DeLaurentiss? (sp)
nancy
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| Vox Humana |
"pennyaline" <nsmitchell@spamspamspamspamspamspamspameggandspam.com> wrote
in message news:MneQd.47$4_3.5423@news.uswest.net...
> Vox Humana wrote:
> > Except for the fact that my kitchen isn't large and I don't keep liquor
in
> > the fridge, you could be talking about me. I have an awkwardly designed
> > kitchen. I keep the flour in my pantry which technically is across the
> hall
> > from the kitchen. I also sling garbage into the sink with abandon in
> > anticipation of sending it down the disposal.
>
> I understand being stuck with the kitchens we have -- I'm in that position
> myself. But the BF Contessa is not in that position. She can afford
whatever
> kitchen she wants, and still "her kitchen" is laid out and stocked and
> furnished in a nonsensical fashion considering the credentials she claims.
I guess that I haven't analyzed the kitchen. It is a "look" that I consider
classic and understated. I don't know if you can assume that the kitchen
looks that way when she isn't filming there. My guess would be that they do
several shows at a time. She may just clear the decks and have only what
they need out for the shows. The rest of the house doesn't look all that
sparse. Maybe it's a case of having too much money. Maybe she is the victim
of bad advice. Who knows? Anyhow, what exactly do you find so terrible
about the design?
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| Vox Humana |
"Zywicki" <gregzywicki@cs.com> wrote in message
news:1108475073.634752.275870@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Giada? Giada's OK, except for those manhands. She's probably just got
> one of
> those superhyper personalities that burns calories. Look at her, and
> you can see
> the wiry Italian little-old-lady she's destined to be. She's a bit
> impressed with her
> itallianess, but the food looks good and uncomplicated, and she seems
> to not take
> herself too seriously.
>
> Inna Garten, on the other hand, is a boor. Saw one episode where she
> had a special
> brunch for her good friend Mr. Zabar, of Gourmet Foodstore Zabar's, who
> was her friend
> and who she knew well, don't you know? Because they're, like, friends?
> You know?
> Her and an important guy? Aren't we all impressed by her and envious?
> Yuck. So
> transparent. Then she proceeded to make some entirley pedestrian fare
> while making it
> sound like she had invented a new cuisine. She could be Giada's size,
> and still she'd have
> an enormous head.
I agree with you on this. I like her. I think her food is fine, especially
for busy people who like to do some entertaining. I like the house. I don't
care if she smells the food or keeps booze in the refrigerator. I don't
care how much she weighs. What I find objectionable about the show is how
she parades people in to use as set pieces. She is like Hyacinth Bouquet on
"Keeping up Appearances" who is preparing for one of her famous candlelight
dinners. The show makes her look like she knows people only if they can
prop-up her status. Maybe she's a very bad actor and it all comes off
wrong. I could do without watching her guests eat. I don't need to know
who she socializes with. The guests often leave the impression that they
are there under duress. Some of the guests seem to be parasitic - like in
the episode where she fixed a ham dinner for some guy who had just remodeled
a house. If she stuck to cooking and just pretended that "important" guests
were about to arrive, it would be better.
|
|
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| pennyaline |
Vox Humana wrote:
> I guess that I haven't analyzed the kitchen. It is a "look" that I
consider
> classic and understated. I don't know if you can assume that the kitchen
> looks that way when she isn't filming there.
But I do assume that it looks that way when she's not filming there because
of her level of comfort. Don't get me wrong, though. I don't think she looks
comfortable in the kitchen at all, but I suspect that the room is normally
nearly barren and that is her comfort zone.
And the kitchen doesn't have usual things. More on that thought later.
> My guess would be that they do
> several shows at a time. She may just clear the decks and have only what
> they need out for the shows. The rest of the house doesn't look all that
> sparse. Maybe it's a case of having too much money. Maybe she is the
victim
> of bad advice. Who knows? Anyhow, what exactly do you find so terrible
> about the design?
Have you ever, ever known a really and truly minimalist professional cook?
I've only ever seen barren kitchen surfaces like BF Contessa's on AbFab, in
real estate listings and in magazine advertisements.
And yet, she has two stoves. People tend to not have two stoves. Given, one
of hers is just a cooktop, but it still adds up to another stove... and like
the first it is miles of pristine countertop away from the refrigerator. And
from the sink. Admit it, for most of us the stove is a step from the sink
and a step from the fridge and a step from the microwave. BF Contessa's
stove proper seems suited only to roasting things -- maybe because it's
stuck back there behind her where she almost never goes. She rests roasts on
it, too, so it must be good for that as well. It's an extension of the
countertop with a hot box underneath... a wall oven without a wall. It's a
backdrop. Face it. All those lovely burners, all of them! unused and
unloved.
Cooks I've known, professional and amateur alike, have usual things in their
kitchens. I don't mean sink, stove, fridge... I mean they have cannisters on
their countertops instead of bonsai. I mean they have kitchen tables and
chairs indoors and not just outdoors or on the beach. They have trivets and
hot pads. They have pot holders. They have towels. They have spoon rests.
They have clocks. They have pictures. They have windows. They have ordinary
plates and cups and flatware in their cupboards and drawers. They have
Velveeta on hand for guilty pleasure emergencies. They have evidence of
cooking and eating and living going on there.
Most of us don't have pantries, kitchens, homes, neighborhoods and
*neighbors* staged like Bed, Bath and Beyond vignettes. Everything about BF
Contessa screams out denunciations of artificiality because she and her
surroundings play as ridiculous. She's a fake. She a fake cook with a fake
kitchen in a fake house in a fake neighborhood dotted with fake people with
fake kitchens in fake houses in a fake neighborhood, etc.
|
|
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| Vox Humana |
"pennyaline" <nsmitchell@spamspamspamspamspamspamspameggandspam.com> wrote
in message news:8MwQd.43$1t3.5442@news.uswest.net...
> Vox Humana wrote:
> > I guess that I haven't analyzed the kitchen. It is a "look" that I
> consider
> > classic and understated. I don't know if you can assume that the
kitchen
> > looks that way when she isn't filming there.
>
> But I do assume that it looks that way when she's not filming there
because
> of her level of comfort. Don't get me wrong, though. I don't think she
looks
> comfortable in the kitchen at all, but I suspect that the room is normally
> nearly barren and that is her comfort zone.
>
> And the kitchen doesn't have usual things. More on that thought later.
>
>
> > My guess would be that they do
> > several shows at a time. She may just clear the decks and have only
what
> > they need out for the shows. The rest of the house doesn't look all
that
> > sparse. Maybe it's a case of having too much money. Maybe she is the
> victim
> > of bad advice. Who knows? Anyhow, what exactly do you find so terrible
> > about the design?
>
> Have you ever, ever known a really and truly minimalist professional cook?
> I've only ever seen barren kitchen surfaces like BF Contessa's on AbFab,
in
> real estate listings and in magazine advertisements.
>
> And yet, she has two stoves. People tend to not have two stoves. Given,
one
> of hers is just a cooktop, but it still adds up to another stove... and
like
> the first it is miles of pristine countertop away from the refrigerator.
And
> from the sink. Admit it, for most of us the stove is a step from the sink
> and a step from the fridge and a step from the microwave. BF Contessa's
> stove proper seems suited only to roasting things -- maybe because it's
> stuck back there behind her where she almost never goes. She rests roasts
on
> it, too, so it must be good for that as well. It's an extension of the
> countertop with a hot box underneath... a wall oven without a wall. It's a
> backdrop. Face it. All those lovely burners, all of them! unused and
> unloved.
>
> Cooks I've known, professional and amateur alike, have usual things in
their
> kitchens. I don't mean sink, stove, fridge... I mean they have cannisters
on
> their countertops instead of bonsai. I mean they have kitchen tables and
> chairs indoors and not just outdoors or on the beach. They have trivets
and
> hot pads. They have pot holders. They have towels. They have spoon rests.
> They have clocks. They have pictures. They have windows. They have
ordinary
> plates and cups and flatware in their cupboards and drawers. They have
> Velveeta on hand for guilty pleasure emergencies. They have evidence of
> cooking and eating and living going on there.
>
> Most of us don't have pantries, kitchens, homes, neighborhoods and
> *neighbors* staged like Bed, Bath and Beyond vignettes. Everything about
BF
> Contessa screams out denunciations of artificiality because she and her
> surroundings play as ridiculous. She's a fake. She a fake cook with a fake
> kitchen in a fake house in a fake neighborhood dotted with fake people
with
> fake kitchens in fake houses in a fake neighborhood, etc.
>
Two Stoves. I bet that the cooktop she uses was added for the show. She
couldn't stand at her range and cook for the show because you would be
looking at her back. If you look at other TV cooking shows, they are set up
the same way, even the shows that are filmed on a set. Martha Stewart, 30
Minute Meals, Paula Dean's Home Cooking, Everyday Italian all have a range
against the wall and an island with a cooktop. The host does all the
cooking at the island.
You would be disappointed to know that I don't have any pictures, trivets,
spoon rests, clocks, canisters, or Velveeta in my house. I do keep a mixer,
a food processor, coffee pot, and a couple of rolling pins on the counter.
I do have a kitchen table, but I have considered getting rid of it and
filling the space with much needed cabinets. I can eat in the dining area
that is only steps away. The truth is that I generally just eat in the
family room anyway. Take a look if you dare. It's not on the level of the
Barefoot Contessa's kitchen but might not pass your test of authenticity:
http://groups.msn.com/laurelridgega...ons.msnw?Page=1
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| Michael Odom |
On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 17:47:57 -0700, "pennyaline"
<nsmitchell@spamspamspamspamspamspamspameggandspam.com> wrote:
>Most of us don't have pantries, kitchens, homes, neighborhoods and
>*neighbors* staged like Bed, Bath and Beyond vignettes. Everything about BF
>Contessa screams out denunciations of artificiality because she and her
>surroundings play as ridiculous. She's a fake. She a fake cook with a fake
>kitchen in a fake house in a fake neighborhood dotted with fake people with
>fake kitchens in fake houses in a fake neighborhood, etc.
>
Yahbut, she lives in Connecticut.
modom
Only superficial people don't judge by appearances.
-- Oscar Wilde
|
|
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| Nancy Young |
"Michael Odom" <modom@un-koyote.com> wrote in message
news:2ta5111v38cds4ukirfiet4fd5f5h2f7us@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 17:47:57 -0700, "pennyaline"
> <nsmitchell@spamspamspamspamspamspamspameggandspam.com> wrote:
>
>>Most of us don't have pantries, kitchens, homes, neighborhoods and
>>*neighbors* staged like Bed, Bath and Beyond vignettes. Everything about
>>BF
>>Contessa screams out denunciations of artificiality because she and her
>>surroundings play as ridiculous. She's a fake. She a fake cook with a fake
>>kitchen in a fake house in a fake neighborhood dotted with fake people
>>with
>>fake kitchens in fake houses in a fake neighborhood, etc.
>>
> Yahbut, she lives in Connecticut.
She lives in the Hamptons, Long Island ... close though!
(smile) nancy
|
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| Vox Humana |
"Michael Odom" <modom@un-koyote.com> wrote in message
news:2ta5111v38cds4ukirfiet4fd5f5h2f7us@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 17:47:57 -0700, "pennyaline"
> <nsmitchell@spamspamspamspamspamspamspameggandspam.com> wrote:
>
> >Most of us don't have pantries, kitchens, homes, neighborhoods and
> >*neighbors* staged like Bed, Bath and Beyond vignettes. Everything about
BF
> >Contessa screams out denunciations of artificiality because she and her
> >surroundings play as ridiculous. She's a fake. She a fake cook with a
fake
> >kitchen in a fake house in a fake neighborhood dotted with fake people
with
> >fake kitchens in fake houses in a fake neighborhood, etc.
> >
> Yahbut, she lives in Connecticut.
>
Only part time. She also lives in East Hampton, New York (not that East
Hampton has much to do with reality).
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| notbob |
On 2005-02-16, pennyaline <nsmitchell@spamspamspamspamspamspamspameggandspam.com> wrote:
> surroundings play as ridiculous. She's a fake. She a fake cook with a fake
> kitchen in a fake house in a fake neighborhood dotted with fake people with
> fake kitchens in fake houses in a fake neighborhood, etc.
So, have a fake cow, whydontchya!
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| pennyaline |
notbob wrote:
> So, have a fake cow, whydontchya!
So I fakin' will, okay?!
|
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| pennyaline |
Vox Humana wrote:
> Two Stoves. I bet that the cooktop she uses was added for the show. She
> couldn't stand at her range and cook for the show because you would be
> looking at her back. If you look at other TV cooking shows, they are set
up
> the same way, even the shows that are filmed on a set. Martha Stewart, 30
> Minute Meals, Paula Dean's Home Cooking, Everyday Italian all have a range
> against the wall and an island with a cooktop. The host does all the
> cooking at the island.
The example of two stoves was to illustrate the concept that we must have
two of one necessary thing for showbiz's sake, yet have no pedestrian items
that might speak of the existence of an individual personality. That kind of
crap drives the ideas that result in the recent thread about uberpriced
unused kitchens.
By the by, have you noticed in some of Giada's shows she is in a jazzy
steely kitchen? Blecccchhh!
> You would be disappointed to know that I don't have any pictures, trivets,
> spoon rests, clocks, canisters, or Velveeta in my house.
I am disappointed. I'd hoped that perhaps you had a hankering for a little
kitch.
> I do keep a mixer,
> a food processor, coffee pot, and a couple of rolling pins on the counter.
> I do have a kitchen table, but I have considered getting rid of it and
> filling the space with much needed cabinets. I can eat in the dining area
> that is only steps away. The truth is that I generally just eat in the
> family room anyway. Take a look if you dare. It's not on the level of
the
> Barefoot Contessa's kitchen but might not pass your test of authenticity:
> http://groups.msn.com/laurelridgega...ons.msnw?Page=1
Your place? Did you put those pictures up there? That says plenty all by
itself. However, my examples were, again, to illustrate a bigger point. At
least you can say that someone actually lives and breathes in your place.
Frankly, I think that everyone should eat on the couch or standing at the
sink once in a while. However, the BF Contessa doesn't have that going for
her. She's going for picture perfect, and I don't think she's kidding. I've
dealt with mental patients like her. Everything about her looks like it's
kept roped off. Those shingles wouldn't dare mildew, would they! Fix that
closed circuit TV on the manicured kitchen garden -- keep your eyes on the
giant green hydrangeas or else!! Call in those fake-baked stringy old
friends who dress like they're in their twenties and have sweaters tied
around their necks, and get them to set the table... get them to build the
table! And get that picnic stuff down to the beach! I made the tablecloth
and napkins myself. And finish the landscaping, it's almost time to eat! Ha
ha ha ha ha ha ha! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! I'm a caterer, a cook and a party
giver. I made it myself, can you believe it? How simple is that? See these
green plates and the silverware in my hands? I brought you green plates and
silverware. Tell me again and again how much you like me. Ha ha ha ha. Ha ha
ha ha ha. Jeffrey, where are you? Jeffrey?? The pancakes are ready. I made
them myself. How hard can that be? I think it's so important to have
chocolate in chocolate brownies. Okay everybody, dig in while I recount
every ingredient. I made it myself, it's really easy. Jeffrey, I made
strawberry jam for your breakfast. Ha ha ha ha ha ha. Ask me if I made it
myself. Yes, I did! Ha ha ha ha. So easy. Just strawberries and sugar. How
delicious is that? Ha ha ha ha, you have to love me now. Jeffrey? Jeffrey...
Jeffrey's coming back soon. He said he'll come back soon...
<"Whatever Happened to Baby Jane" or "Hush, Hush, Sweet Charlotte"?>
|
|
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| Janet Bostwick |
"pennyaline" <nsmitchell@spamspamspamspamspamspamspameggandspam.com> wrote
in message news:UAAQd.52$co5.2228@news.uswest.net...
snip
> Frankly, I think that everyone should eat on the couch or standing at the
> sink once in a while. However, the BF Contessa doesn't have that going for
> her. She's going for picture perfect, and I don't think she's kidding.
> I've
> dealt with mental patients like her. Everything about her looks like it's
> kept roped off. Those shingles wouldn't dare mildew, would they! Fix that
> closed circuit TV on the manicured kitchen garden -- keep your eyes on the
> giant green hydrangeas or else!! Call in those fake-baked stringy old
> friends who dress like they're in their twenties and have sweaters tied
> around their necks, and get them to set the table... get them to build the
> table! And get that picnic stuff down to the beach! I made the tablecloth
> and napkins myself. And finish the landscaping, it's almost time to eat!
> Ha
> ha ha ha ha ha ha! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! I'm a caterer, a cook and a party
> giver. I made it myself, can you believe it? How simple is that? See these
> green plates and the silverware in my hands? I brought you green plates
> and
> silverware. Tell me again and again how much you like me. Ha ha ha ha. Ha
> ha
> ha ha ha. Jeffrey, where are you? Jeffrey?? The pancakes are ready. I made
> them myself. How hard can that be? I think it's so important to have
> chocolate in chocolate brownies. Okay everybody, dig in while I recount
> every ingredient. I made it myself, it's really easy. Jeffrey, I made
> strawberry jam for your breakfast. Ha ha ha ha ha ha. Ask me if I made it
> myself. Yes, I did! Ha ha ha ha. So easy. Just strawberries and sugar. How
> delicious is that? Ha ha ha ha, you have to love me now. Jeffrey?
> Jeffrey...
> Jeffrey's coming back soon. He said he'll come back soon...
>
> <"Whatever Happened to Baby Jane" or "Hush, Hush, Sweet Charlotte"?>
>
>
Your anger at this person or even persons that are nothing to you takes my
breath away. These are people with human weaknesses just like everyone
else. So the Contessa is insecure and needs to seek approval all the time,
so what? In what capacity do you deal with mental patients?
Janet
|
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| Vox Humana |
"pennyaline" <nsmitchell@spamspamspamspamspamspamspameggandspam.com> wrote
in message news:UAAQd.52$co5.2228@news.uswest.net...
> Vox Humana wrote:
> > Two Stoves. I bet that the cooktop she uses was added for the show.
She
> > couldn't stand at her range and cook for the show because you would be
> > looking at her back. If you look at other TV cooking shows, they are
set
> up
> > the same way, even the shows that are filmed on a set. Martha Stewart,
30
> > Minute Meals, Paula Dean's Home Cooking, Everyday Italian all have a
range
> > against the wall and an island with a cooktop. The host does all the
> > cooking at the island.
>
> The example of two stoves was to illustrate the concept that we must have
> two of one necessary thing for showbiz's sake, yet have no pedestrian
items
> that might speak of the existence of an individual personality. That kind
of
> crap drives the ideas that result in the recent thread about uberpriced
> unused kitchens.
>
> By the by, have you noticed in some of Giada's shows she is in a jazzy
> steely kitchen? Blecccchhh!
>
>
> > You would be disappointed to know that I don't have any pictures,
trivets,
> > spoon rests, clocks, canisters, or Velveeta in my house.
>
> I am disappointed. I'd hoped that perhaps you had a hankering for a little
> kitch.
>
>
> > I do keep a mixer,
> > a food processor, coffee pot, and a couple of rolling pins on the
counter.
> > I do have a kitchen table, but I have considered getting rid of it and
> > filling the space with much needed cabinets. I can eat in the dining
area
> > that is only steps away. The truth is that I generally just eat in the
> > family room anyway. Take a look if you dare. It's not on the level of
> the
> > Barefoot Contessa's kitchen but might not pass your test of
authenticity:
> > http://groups.msn.com/laurelridgega...ons.msnw?Page=1
>
> Your place? Did you put those pictures up there? That says plenty all by
> itself. However, my examples were, again, to illustrate a bigger point. At
> least you can say that someone actually lives and breathes in your place.
Yes. That's my place.
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| pennyaline |
Janet Bostwick wrote:
> Your anger at this person or even persons that are nothing to you takes my
> breath away. These are people with human weaknesses just like everyone
> else. So the Contessa is insecure and needs to seek approval all the
time,
> so what? In what capacity do you deal with mental patients?
> Janet
There you go, seeing anger where none exists. Is humor beyond you?
Don't worry. We're all neurotic in some ways, and neuroses can escalate to
detatchment for any of us if we let it. Wellness is measured in mere
degrees, remember.
Back to the point:
The BF Contessa isn't insecure. She's pathological. That's not just human
weakness. That's illness.
I deal with mental patients daily. I'm the director of nursing in a nursing
home that takes patients ready for discharge from extended stay hospital
residencies (state hospitals) but who will likely never be able to return to
the community. In other words, I work with mental patients every day. We
have one at this moment who reminds me of the BF Contessa constantly, but
I've seen others before her and I'm sure to see more in the future.
Why do you ask? ;)
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| pennyaline |
Vox Humana wrote:
> > Your place? Did you put those pictures up there? That says plenty all by
> > itself. However, my examples were, again, to illustrate a bigger point.
At
> > least you can say that someone actually lives and breathes in your
place.
>
> Yes. That's my place.
'smatter, Vox. Didn't care to comment on the BF Contessa meltdown?
<some people wouldn't recognize the obvious if it came up and introduce
itself, which it does all the time>
|
|
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| Janet Bostwick |
"pennyaline" <nsmitchell@spamspamspamspamspamspamspameggandspam.com> wrote
in message news:F6SQd.175$pg4.1764@news.uswest.net...
snip
>
> There you go, seeing anger where none exists. Is humor beyond you?
I didn't think so. I guess I saw your postings as over the top.
I was querying your judgment in such cases. Apparently you have the
background to judge. Still, I have a friend that reminds me of the Contessa
and while she drives me batty sometimes, I wouldn't describe her as mentally
ill.
Janet
> Why do you ask? ;)
>
>
>
|
|
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| Vox Humana |
"pennyaline" <nsmitchell@spamspamspamspamspamspamspameggandspam.com> wrote
in message news:aaSQd.176$pg4.1840@news.uswest.net...
> Vox Humana wrote:
> > > Your place? Did you put those pictures up there? That says plenty all
by
> > > itself. However, my examples were, again, to illustrate a bigger
point.
> At
> > > least you can say that someone actually lives and breathes in your
> place.
> >
> > Yes. That's my place.
>
> 'smatter, Vox. Didn't care to comment on the BF Contessa meltdown?
>
I think everyone is entitle to a meltdown now and then.
|
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| Maverick |
"pennyaline" <nsmitchell@spamspamspamspamspamspamspameggandspam.com> wrote
in message news:8MwQd.43$1t3.5442@news.uswest.net...
> Vox Humana wrote:
>> I guess that I haven't analyzed the kitchen. It is a "look" that I
> consider
>> classic and understated. I don't know if you can assume that the kitchen
>> looks that way when she isn't filming there.
>
> But I do assume that it looks that way when she's not filming there
> because
> of her level of comfort. Don't get me wrong, though. I don't think she
> looks
> comfortable in the kitchen at all, but I suspect that the room is normally
> nearly barren and that is her comfort zone.
>
> And the kitchen doesn't have usual things. More on that thought later.
>
>
>> My guess would be that they do
>> several shows at a time. She may just clear the decks and have only what
>> they need out for the shows. The rest of the house doesn't look all that
>> sparse. Maybe it's a case of having too much money. Maybe she is the
> victim
>> of bad advice. Who knows? Anyhow, what exactly do you find so terrible
>> about the design?
>
> Have you ever, ever known a really and truly minimalist professional cook?
> I've only ever seen barren kitchen surfaces like BF Contessa's on AbFab,
> in
> real estate listings and in magazine advertisements.
>
> And yet, she has two stoves. People tend to not have two stoves. Given,
> one
> of hers is just a cooktop, but it still adds up to another stove... and
> like
> the first it is miles of pristine countertop away from the refrigerator.
> And
> from the sink. Admit it, for most of us the stove is a step from the sink
> and a step from the fridge and a step from the microwave. BF Contessa's
> stove proper seems suited only to roasting things -- maybe because it's
> stuck back there behind her where she almost never goes. She rests roasts
> on
> it, too, so it must be good for that as well. It's an extension of the
> countertop with a hot box underneath... a wall oven without a wall. It's a
> backdrop. Face it. All those lovely burners, all of them! unused and
> unloved.
>
> Cooks I've known, professional and amateur alike, have usual things in
> their
> kitchens. I don't mean sink, stove, fridge... I mean they have cannisters
> on
> their countertops instead of bonsai. I mean they have kitchen tables and
> chairs indoors and not just outdoors or on the beach. They have trivets
> and
> hot pads. They have pot holders. They have towels. They have spoon rests.
> They have clocks. They have pictures. They have windows. They have
> ordinary
> plates and cups and flatware in their cupboards and drawers. They have
> Velveeta on hand for guilty pleasure emergencies. They have evidence of
> cooking and eating and living going on there.
>
> Most of us don't have pantries, kitchens, homes, neighborhoods and
> *neighbors* staged like Bed, Bath and Beyond vignettes. Everything about
> BF
> Contessa screams out denunciations of artificiality because she and her
> surroundings play as ridiculous. She's a fake. She a fake cook with a fake
> kitchen in a fake house in a fake neighborhood dotted with fake people
> with
> fake kitchens in fake houses in a fake neighborhood, etc.
While I'm not disagreeing with you on this but would you like to have a TV
show in your own everyday kitchen? Isn't Emeril Live in the same boat? His
TV kitchen isn't all that well laid out either.
Just my thoughts...
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|
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| Pinky Pinkerton |
Pinky Pinkerton wrote:
> Why does this woman sniff every other ingredient while she cooks? That
> looks unsanitary!
Okay, I take back what I said about dear old Ina being unsanitary. I
remember a show of hers where she was taking a bath.
|
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| Serendipity |
Stark wrote:
>>Pinky Pinkerton wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Why does this woman sniff every other ingredient while she cooks? That
>>>looks unsanitary!
>>
>
> Some folks have a heightened sense of smell and with kitchen
> ingredients it can be very pleasurable, even erotic. It can also be
> irritable--think of all the cig and cigar-phobes. Frankly I envy them.
> My own sense of smell seems kinda simplistic, either on or off; and I
> wonder what I'm missing.
>
> Unsanitary? Only if she stuck her nose in the stuff she's sniffing.
<delurking>
I've seen the Barefood Contess and can relate as I'm a sniffer when I
cook. I've been a sniffer every since I was knee high to a grasshopper
:) Good food isn't just about taste. The aroma builds the anticipation
and heightens the taste. Visual appeal is also very important.
BTW, this is a lovely group! I've lurked for quite some time. I love
the food channels and love to cook. Cooking gives me great comfort!
I'd say my basic cooking style is down home cooking. I do a lot of
preserving, everything from soups and stews to vegetables to jams and
jellies. While I bake a fair amount of bread, I don't do a lot of other
baking so I envy those who do.
</delurking>
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