| IanW |
I have a recipe for a cake that you don't get in the shops, but is really
very tasty. I make it every so often and it always get enthusiastic
responses.. it's one of those ones where everyone wants to know the recipe -
as far as I know it's one of my grandmother's recipes.
Now, I have an idea for 3 different types of cake on a similar theme and was
thinking it would be great to make a brand out of them and sell them to
supermarkets etc. I've got ideas for packaging and a way to lift them above
the rest of the average line of cakes you get in the shops. However, I don't
have a bakery, so how does one go about realising this kind of ambition?
One approach, I thought I could try is to make some at home myself and take
them round to supermarkets and see if I can clinch some orders. If
successful them there happens to be a large scale bakery not too far from
where I live, that makes things like flap-jacks and muffins, so I could
approach them and see if I could come to a deal with them to make the line
of products under my brand.. does that kind of thing sound feasible or am I
just dreaming here.. how do other people start up this kind of business?
Ian
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| Vox Humana |
"IanW" <someone@somewhere.com> wrote in message
news:UaSdncvyUsbajK_fRVnyiw@giganews.com...
> I have a recipe for a cake that you don't get in the shops, but is really
> very tasty. I make it every so often and it always get enthusiastic
> responses.. it's one of those ones where everyone wants to know the
recipe -
> as far as I know it's one of my grandmother's recipes.
>
> Now, I have an idea for 3 different types of cake on a similar theme and
was
> thinking it would be great to make a brand out of them and sell them to
> supermarkets etc. I've got ideas for packaging and a way to lift them
above
> the rest of the average line of cakes you get in the shops. However, I
don't
> have a bakery, so how does one go about realising this kind of ambition?
>
> One approach, I thought I could try is to make some at home myself and
take
> them round to supermarkets and see if I can clinch some orders. If
> successful them there happens to be a large scale bakery not too far from
> where I live, that makes things like flap-jacks and muffins, so I could
> approach them and see if I could come to a deal with them to make the line
> of products under my brand.. does that kind of thing sound feasible or am
I
> just dreaming here.. how do other people start up this kind of business?
You might call around and see if a certified kitchen will rent some time or
space to you. You would then need to figure out how much the ingredients
will cost along with the
packaging/promotions/advertising/transportation/insurance/employee costs,
etc. You then need to figure out how much you can charge (based on similar
items in your market) and how many units you anticipate selling. From there
you can get an idea if you will make money. All businesses start with a
dream. It won't be easy, but you can always give it a try.
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| Rona Y. |
IanW wrote:
> One approach, I thought I could try is to make some at home myself
> and take them round to supermarkets and see if I can clinch some
> orders. If successful them there happens to be a large scale bakery
> not too far from where I live, that makes things like flap-jacks and
> muffins, so I could approach them and see if I could come to a deal
> with them to make the line of products under my brand.. does that
> kind of thing sound feasible or am I just dreaming here.. how do
> other people start up this kind of business?
>
> Ian
If you're thinking of doing it from home, the very first thing you need to
do is contact your city offices to determine if it's legal to operate a home
baking business. In my city, you cannot sell goods made in home
kitchens--you must use a commercial kitchen (rent space) or have a separate
kitchen solely for baking for your business. There are also various health
codes one needs to adhere to.
Personally, I think you'd be better off starting small. Supermarkets,
especially large ones, would not likely order from a home baker. Instead,
try baking (which you could charge for--though then you'd have to follow you
city's health codes) for your friends' parties, or their friends' parties,
etc. Your product will reach a wider customer base, and the reputation of
your product will spread by word of mouth. Once you have that wide customer
base, you can consider opening your own bakery, or marketing your cakes to
restaurants or country clubs. You could try approaching a small bakery, but
going to a large-scale bakery first, I think, is just dreaming (not to say
it can't happen...).
rona
--
***For e-mail, replace .com with .ca Sorry for the inconvenience!***
"[America] is filled with people who decided not to live in Europe. We
had people who really wanted to live in Europe, but didn't have the
energy to go back. We call them Canadians." ---Grover Norquist in
Newsweek, November 22, 2004
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| Ida Slapter |
On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 21:44:32 -0000, "IanW" <someone@somewhere.com>
wrote:
>I have a recipe for a cake that you don't get in the shops, but is really
>very tasty.
Yes...they all are tasty. Are you prepared to make quantity...?
You might get a request for 300 cakes to be delivered by
7am....tomorrow.
Get your liability insurance in place.....someone might choke on a
piece of cake and sue your everloving frosting off the batter.
The Fine Art of Cooking involves personal choice.
Many preferences, ingredients, and procedures may not
be consistent with what you know to be true.
As with any recipe, you may find your personal
intervention will be necessary. Bon Appetit!
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| Petey the Wonder Dog |
Far as I can tell, someone wrote:
>One approach, I thought I could try is to make some at home myself and take
>them round to supermarkets and see if I can clinch some orders.
A nice idea, but more than likely, totally illegal.
Virtually all state health departments make it against the law to
prepare foods at home for commercial purposes. You can bake for a bake
sale at the school, but your equipment and processes must meet state
codes for commercial sale. Then you have to get into resale tax
certificates, because the stores will not want to pay sales tax to you.
Then you have to have a license. Then you have to get a permit from the
government which proves your county building office has inspected your
premesis to show thqat your equipement, elctricity etc is up to code,
which it isn't, 'cause it's not designed and built for commercial use.
It goes on... as it should to protect the health of the buying public.
(Which is certainly not to say that all bakeries and restaurnats are
clean... but that's another topic.)
I suggest you try to talk a retail baker into baking for you.
There's no way in the world I would let a stranger/non-employee of mine
bake and/or use my facilities. The risk is FAR too high. No matter
what happens, should something go wrong, I would get sued.
You poison a customer, I get sued.
You burn yourself, I get sued.
Since you don't have any formal training, you couldn't even sign a
waiver in case you hurt yourself. The government does not recognize
your ability to protect yourself without food-handling training and
safety training.
It's a very tough world out there.
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| IanW |
"Petey the Wonder Dog" <baldycotton2@mchsi.comedy> wrote in message
news:dpu631pau327fspmbvtiehsuuvhmrods60@4ax.com...
> Far as I can tell, someone wrote:
>>One approach, I thought I could try is to make some at home myself and
>>take
>>them round to supermarkets and see if I can clinch some orders.
>
> A nice idea, but more than likely, totally illegal.
>
> Virtually all state health departments make it against the law to
> prepare foods at home for commercial purposes. You can bake for a bake
> sale at the school, but your equipment and processes must meet state
> codes for commercial sale. Then you have to get into resale tax
> certificates, because the stores will not want to pay sales tax to you.
> Then you have to have a license. Then you have to get a permit from the
> government which proves your county building office has inspected your
> premesis to show thqat your equipement, elctricity etc is up to code,
> which it isn't, 'cause it's not designed and built for commercial use.
> It goes on... as it should to protect the health of the buying public.
> (Which is certainly not to say that all bakeries and restaurnats are
> clean... but that's another topic.)
>
> I suggest you try to talk a retail baker into baking for you.
Yes, I think that may be the best idea. So, presumably if I develop a brand
name, packaging and a business plan and then approach the bakery and ask
them how much they would charge to make the product, add some profit for
myself and then market the cakes?
Ian
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| Petey the Wonder Dog |
Far as I can tell, someone wrote:
>Yes, I think that may be the best idea. So, presumably if I develop a brand
>name, packaging and a business plan and then approach the bakery and ask
>them how much they would charge to make the product, add some profit for
>myself and then market the cakes?
That pretty much sums it up.
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| marks542004@yahoo.com |
Petey the Wonder Dog wrote:
> Far as I can tell, someone wrote:
> >Yes, I think that may be the best idea. So, presumably if I develop
a brand
> >name, packaging and a business plan and then approach the bakery and
ask
> >them how much they would charge to make the product, add some profit
for
> >myself and then market the cakes?
>
> That pretty much sums it up.
Unless you have a bekery in your area that does commercial contract
baking I would try to find a commercial kitchen for rent.
Schools, fire stations, VFW, etc all have commercial kitchens which
they may make available to you.
You should get the state sanitation certificate before you start and
there are several courses available online about scaling up recipes for
commercail production.
If you think you have a product with wide appeal you might be better
off finding a company that specializes in contract baking for
assistance.
Your recipe might need modification to improve its packaging ability
and shelf life.
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| IanW |
> Unless you have a bekery in your area that does commercial contract
> baking I would try to find a commercial kitchen for rent.
>
> Schools, fire stations, VFW, etc all have commercial kitchens which
> they may make available to you.
>
> You should get the state sanitation certificate before you start and
> there are several courses available online about scaling up recipes for
> commercail production.
>
> If you think you have a product with wide appeal you might be better
> off finding a company that specializes in contract baking for
> assistance.
>
> Your recipe might need modification to improve its packaging ability
> and shelf life.
that's something I was wondering about - the base of the cake is the usual
sugar, eggs, flour & marg.. the sugar is presumably going to act as a
preservative, but do commercial producers add anything further?
Ian
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| Petey the Wonder Dog |
Far as I can tell, someone wrote:
>Unless you have a bekery in your area that does commercial contract
>baking I would try to find a commercial kitchen for rent.
>
>Schools, fire stations, VFW, etc all have commercial kitchens which
>they may make available to you.
The crux of the problem is one of cost and government code.
If I ran a school kitchen, firehouse kitchen, VFW or whatever, I would
not let anyone come in and bake for a commercial product that's intended
to sell. There are liability issues.
In my business, I sometimes bake by request, and I have no interest in
"stealing" a recipe.
If you come to my shop and say... "I'd like to pay you to bake a product
for me, and only for me, and it may make me a fair amount of money," I'd
be happy to "contract bake" for you. I'd agree in the contract not to
use your recipe except as you direct. I get to ensure that the product
is safe for the public to consume and make a bit of profit as well.
But if you want use my oven and tools, it ain't gonna happen. Period.
There is just too much at risk. You screw up, I get sued. Or you break
my equipment, or burn yourself, or whatever. Anyone would be nuts to
let you do it.
Starting out, you need the LEAST amount of investment possible.
When you start to make money and establish a product or products, then
go for it.
It cost me $135,000.00 to get started. I'm into it for two years and am
just starting to make money. That's pretty normal for a
bakery/restaurnat.
I almost got killed by the Adkins idiocy, and by some wildly fluctuating
flour and egg prices.
Assume the smallest risk possible, test your product wholesale and
retail and chase your dream.
Read about how Famous Amos got his start. Then go to the Small Business
Development Center in your area with your business plan.
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| -L. |
Petey the Wonder Dog wrote:
>
> Starting out, you need the LEAST amount of investment possible.
>
> When you start to make money and establish a product or products,
then
> go for it.
/delurk. Ok, so how does one go about doing this initially? Baking
for friends and/or selling goodies under the table to establish a
client base? Or should I contract out a small batch of product and
peddle it to retailers?
>
> It cost me $135,000.00 to get started. I'm into it for two years and
am
> just starting to make money. That's pretty normal for a
> bakery/restaurnat.
Pardon my ignorance (I'm new to the group) but what kind of business do
you have?
>
> I almost got killed by the Adkins idiocy, and by some wildly
fluctuating
> flour and egg prices.
Has the Adkins wave subsided at all for you? Or did you have to alter
recipes to come up with low-carb alternatives?
>
> Assume the smallest risk possible, test your product wholesale and
> retail and chase your dream.
>
> Read about how Famous Amos got his start. Then go to the Small
Business
> Development Center in your area with your business plan.
Thanks for posting your experience. I, too, am thinking of starting a
baking business (cakes, cookies) because so many people tell me I
should.
-L.
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| IanW |
"Petey the Wonder Dog" <baldycotton2@mchsi.comedy> wrote in message
news:7enh31pjl6b9eejrjsio6dvcg9f009ltsv@4ax.com...
[..]
> If you come to my shop and say... "I'd like to pay you to bake a product
> for me, and only for me, and it may make me a fair amount of money," I'd
> be happy to "contract bake" for you. I'd agree in the contract not to
> use your recipe except as you direct. I get to ensure that the product
> is safe for the public to consume and make a bit of profit as well.
>
> But if you want use my oven and tools, it ain't gonna happen. Period.
>
> There is just too much at risk. You screw up, I get sued. Or you break
> my equipment, or burn yourself, or whatever. Anyone would be nuts to
> let you do it.
Yeah, I think when it comes to selling to retailers it's definitely got to
be the contract-bake option, so..
> Starting out, you need the LEAST amount of investment possible.
So, say you took some samples of your cake along to a chain of local
retailers and they really digged it and decided to place an order for say
500. They're not going to pay until you deliver presumably.. so you take the
order to a contract baker who agrees to bake them for a suitable price - but
will they want the money up front or on delivery? I'm guessing that they
would want it up front for a company they haven't dealt with before, or
would they?
> When you start to make money and establish a product or products, then
> go for it.
>
> It cost me $135,000.00 to get started. I'm into it for two years and am
> just starting to make money. That's pretty normal for a
> bakery/restaurnat.
So, if someone came along to you and asked you to contract bake them a batch
of regular fruit cake, for example, how much would you expect to charge per
cake, including your profit?
> Assume the smallest risk possible, test your product wholesale and
> retail and chase your dream.
I like that :-)
Ian
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| Petey the Wonder Dog |
Xref: 127.0.0.1 rec.food.baking:65051
Far as I can tell, someone wrote:
Petey the Wonder Dog wrote:
>>
>> Starting out, you need the LEAST amount of investment possible.
>>
>> When you start to make money and establish a product or products,
>then
>> go for it.
>
>/delurk. Ok, so how does one go about doing this initially? Baking
>for friends and/or selling goodies under the table to establish a
>client base? Or should I contract out a small batch of product and
>peddle it to retailers?
I'd say you would want to bake (which in small batches like this you
could do at home) enough to give samples to retailers. Ask them if they
feel they would have a market for them. What would they buy?
>
>>
>> It cost me $135,000.00 to get started. I'm into it for two years and
>am
>> just starting to make money. That's pretty normal for a
>> bakery/restaurnat.
>
>Pardon my ignorance (I'm new to the group) but what kind of business do
>you have?
It's a bagel shop/deli/restaurant.
>> I almost got killed by the Adkins idiocy, and by some wildly
>fluctuating
>> flour and egg prices.
>
>Has the Adkins wave subsided at all for you? Or did you have to alter
>recipes to come up with low-carb alternatives?
Yes. Thank God. It's dead. The factories are now sending FREE boxes of
low carb ingredients. All or most out of date. No one wants them
anymore.
>> Assume the smallest risk possible, test your product wholesale and
>> retail and chase your dream.
>>
>> Read about how Famous Amos got his start. Then go to the Small
>Business
>> Development Center in your area with your business plan.
>
>Thanks for posting your experience. I, too, am thinking of starting a
>baking business (cakes, cookies) because so many people tell me I
>should.
You're welcome. Remember though, you have to love what you're doing and
be determined to work long long hours for no money for a long time.
Again, minimize your risk.
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| Eric Jorgensen |
On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 00:09:46 GMT
Petey the Wonder Dog <baldycotton2@mchsi.comedy> wrote:
> Far as I can tell, someone wrote:
> >Has the Adkins wave subsided at all for you? Or did you have to alter
> >recipes to come up with low-carb alternatives?
>
> Yes. Thank God. It's dead. The factories are now sending FREE boxes of
> low carb ingredients. All or most out of date. No one wants them
> anymore.
The weird thing is i hear that despite the drop off in sales of
low-carb foods, the books are still selling. I guess everybody is at stage
three?
I knew it couldn't last when i saw the no-carb synthetic honey
substitute at Target. Mmm, xanthan gum!
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| Petey the Wonder Dog |
Far as I can tell, someone wrote:
>Yeah, I think when it comes to selling to retailers it's definitely got to
>be the contract-bake option, so..
>
>> Starting out, you need the LEAST amount of investment possible.
>So, say you took some samples of your cake along to a chain of local
>retailers and they really digged it and decided to place an order for say
>500. They're not going to pay until you deliver presumably.. so you take the
>order to a contract baker who agrees to bake them for a suitable price - but
>will they want the money up front or on delivery? I'm guessing that they
>would want it up front for a company they haven't dealt with before, or
>would they?
People who are going to buy from you will want credit, unless you have
an incredible product. Don't even dream about selling 500 of anything
yet. In that catagory you are competing with the big guys.
Go visit a Sam's Club or Costco and see what a little retailer can buy a
pretty darned good cake for.
You have to establish al that in your business plan.
>> When you start to make money and establish a product or products, then
>> go for it.
>>
>> It cost me $135,000.00 to get started. I'm into it for two years and am
>> just starting to make money. That's pretty normal for a
>> bakery/restaurnat.
>So, if someone came along to you and asked you to contract bake them a batch
>of regular fruit cake, for example, how much would you expect to charge per
>cake, including your profit?
Well, fruit cake might be a bad choice, since I've never made one, and
don't want to, so lets say you want to get something I can do.
Let's say you want to make banana nut bagels. You've developed a recipe,
your whole family and all your friends think it will make you rich.
So you come to me with your idea, and you want exclusive rights to
distribute them. So far, no problem. You tell me they are really
special and you'd like me to sign a waiver promising not to make them
for my own use for "x" years.
I look at the quantity you need on a daily basis, ingredients list, and
figure out what it would cost me to make them. I don't tell you my
costs. I only tell you what I want to make them for you. Since they
are not my regular ingredients, or I have ot buy extra quantity to
satisfy your needs, I ask you for a "good will" deposit that will cover
my costs if you bail out.
As a general rule, I am not in business to make you successful, but
there is something in it for me. If you like my product, and the
publics likes your product, we both make money. I could ask you to sign
a contract so you don't jump off my train and go to someone maybe a tad
cheaper for a period of time. EVERYTHING is negotiable.
I sell my bagels for 85cents each. I don't care if you want one or not,
because I make my money selling sandwiches. I sell a baker's dozen for
$8.95. Wal-Mart is two miles away and you can buy a bagel there for 44
cents, but I don't give a rat's ass 'cause they suck.
I'll sell you a hundred of my bagels per day for 35 cents each. You
have to buy them whether you can sell them or not. The banana nut bagels
might cost you a bit more, but again, everything is negotiable.
EVERYTHING. You may ask me to lower my price per if you start buying
500 per day. (I would) I might ask you to let me sell your banana nut
bagels in my shop by buying them back from you for 45 cents instead of
the 50 cents you sell them to other retailers for.
I'm not going to take much risk unless I'm convinced that the gain would
be great. If you bring me your business plan and it looks really good,
I might cut you some slack.
>> Assume the smallest risk possible, test your product wholesale and
>> retail and chase your dream.
>
>I like that :-)
>
>Ian
>
>
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| Petey the Wonder Dog |
Far as I can tell, someone wrote:
> The weird thing is i hear that despite the drop off in sales of
>low-carb foods, the books are still selling. I guess everybody is at stage
>three?
Sadly, there are millions of fat folks out there that think the easiest
way to loose weight is to buy a book. Then the most excercise they get
is putting the book on a shelf to gather dust.
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| Vox Humana |
"IanW" <someone@somewhere.com> wrote in message
news:7-Sdne6Dp5m27KXfRVnytg@giganews.com...
>
> that's something I was wondering about - the base of the cake is the usual
> sugar, eggs, flour & marg.. the sugar is presumably going to act as a
> preservative, but do commercial producers add anything further?
>
I saw a show on the Food Network and thought about this thread. The show is
called "Recipe for Success" and it follows people who quit their jobs to go
into the food business. This week there was an episode called "That takes
the cake" http://www.foodnetwork.com/food/show_ra
The show was about a Harvard MBA who quite her job and sold her home to
start a business making a family recipe pound cake that she sells to
retailers and food services. She lined up a commercial baker to make the
product and got a contract for tens of thousands of slices of cake for an
airline. The day before the first order was to be baked, the bakery called
and said they were going out of business -- TODAY!
It's an interesting series. I don't know if they have on-demand for the
Food Network, but you might be interested. It might be worth contacting some
of these people to see if they can give you some advice.
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| . |
On Thu, 17 Mar 2005, -L. wrote:
> Petey the Wonder Dog wrote:
> >
> > Starting out, you need the LEAST amount of investment possible.
> >
> > When you start to make money and establish a product or products, then
> > go for it.
>
> /delurk. Ok, so how does one go about doing this initially? Baking
> for friends and/or selling goodies under the table to establish a
> client base? Or should I contract out a small batch of product and
> peddle it to retailers?
>
> > It cost me $135,000.00 to get started. I'm into it for two years and
> > am just starting to make money. That's pretty normal for a
> > bakery/restaurnat.
>
> Pardon my ignorance (I'm new to the group) but what kind of business do
> you have?
>
> > I almost got killed by the Adkins idiocy, and by some wildly
> > fluctuating flour and egg prices.
>
> Has the Adkins wave subsided at all for you? Or did you have to alter
> recipes to come up with low-carb alternatives?
>
> > Assume the smallest risk possible, test your product wholesale and
> > retail and chase your dream.
> >
> > Read about how Famous Amos got his start. Then go to the Small
> > Business Development Center in your area with your business plan.
>
> Thanks for posting your experience. I, too, am thinking of starting a
> baking business (cakes, cookies) because so many people tell me I
> should.
People have told me I'm good at baking and suggested I start a business.
They aren't considering the business side of starting a bakery. There is a
huge difference between being a good baker and running a business.
I make my living in Computer Science. I have seen a lot of friends create
start up companies. All of them have been really good programmers. The
only people successful have hired people who are really good managers.
They create the programs and their partners manage the business.
Some people are good at both. You just have to recognize where your
strengths are and get others to help you were you are weak. If you are
like me, you want to find someone to handle the business aspects while you
handle the actual baking.
--
Send e-mail to: darrell dot grainger at utoronto dot ca
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