| Victor Sack |
Phred <ppnerkDELETETHIS@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hmm... If you really "get what you pay for" then this part of the
> world clearly sees some cuts of beef (especially beef) as better
> quality than others.
The price is usually determined by supply and demand, not necessarily by
taste. As to supply, there is much less meat suitable for steaks on the
cow than for other cooking methods. As to demand, obviously, good
steaks are popular because of their taste, but also because they are
much easier to cook than most other cuts of meat, requiring only a few
minutes of cooking and no prep work. Demand may be determined by
convenience as much as by taste considerations, often even more so.
Now consider, for example, a good stewed or good barbecued (in the
southern-US sense of the word) meat. These methods of preparation
require tough cuts of meat totally unsuitable for a steak and usually
costing rather less than most steak cuts. Are these dishes inferior to
a good steak? I would say they are not. Some prefer the one, some the
other, some like both equally well and it may just depend on the mood of
the moment. There is nothing inherently bad in a tough cuts of meat, on
the contrary, such cuts are often enough more flavourful.
> Actually, one of my favourite breakfasts is liver and bacon -- but I'm
> buggered if I can make it properly. :-( [In truth, I don't think
> *anyone* can make it properly since the days of steam on Queensland
> Rail. Don't know how they did it, but the delight (the *only*
> delight :) of travelling by rail for two days down the coast of
> Queensland covered in soot, was the dinning car breaky of liver and
> bacon served at one point of the trip. I'm drooling with the memory!
Sounds good. Was the liver just pan-fried? Myself, I like Jewish-style
chopped liver (which is best made with meat grinder/mincer). I also
like the Spanish preparation of chicken liver fried with onions, garlic
and white wine. Also chicken liver crostini.
> As an early teenager who spent most of every school holidays in the
> local creeks and streams spearfishing (now banned of course) I once
> speared a "giant" eel -- weighed in at about 10 lbs and was probably
> about 30" long. I could only see the head initially, and thought it
> was a fish of some sort, so I got a hell of a fright when the bloody
> thing fairly "exploded" out of the snag! Mate and I cycled around
> town for an hour or more trying to offload the damn thing. We
> eventually succeeded when we called on one of the "ethnics" from
> southern Italy. :)
Your loss! :-) Should've just grilled or pan-fried like the Italians
do. Such a big eel must be skinned, as the skin is much too tough to be
edible. Cut in pieces and fry in oil, or dip the pieces in beaten eggs
and roll in breadcrumbs (which are often enough mixed with grated
cheese, as this is one of those traditional Italian preparation that
disproves the old rule of no cheese with fish). Or you can thread the
eel pieces on skewers and grill them.
> Had a look around our local supermarkets this morning to see if your
> "Matjes" had made it this far from home.
If it is available, it likely to be at a specialised fish monger's and
then maybe only in such big cities as Sydney or Melbourne. However,
here is a menu of a restaurant somewhere in Western Australia. They
offer matjes, so it must be available somewhere.
<http://members.ozemail.com.au/~thel...aurant/Menu.htm>
> But all I could find were
> bottles of "marinated herring"; and something called "Rollmops" which,
> I'm led to believe by a mate with most catholic tastes, are inedible!
Personally, I heartily agree with your mate, as I can't stand fish
marinated in vinegar, but a lot of people like it. Anyway, rollmops is
a very different thing. The bulk of good matjes is sold just like fresh
fish either whole, right out of the barrel, or filleted, not prepackaged
usually. It has to be refrigerated. Matjes can also be sold frozen.
Matjes packed in oil or brine is available, it is said, but it doesn't
seem to be at all popular either in Holland or in Germany.
Victor
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| Phred |
In article <1h3f85f.1scrsa14uy47uN%azazello@koroviev.de>, azazello@koroviev.de (Victor Sack) wrote:
>Phred <ppnerkDELETETHIS@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> Hmm... If you really "get what you pay for" then this part of the
>> world clearly sees some cuts of beef (especially beef) as better
>> quality than others.
>
>The price is usually determined by supply and demand, not necessarily by
>taste. As to supply, there is much less meat suitable for steaks on the
>cow than for other cooking methods. As to demand, obviously, good
>steaks are popular because of their taste, but also because they are
>much easier to cook than most other cuts of meat, requiring only a few
>minutes of cooking and no prep work. Demand may be determined by
>convenience as much as by taste considerations, often even more so.
I agree. The inferior cuts need a lot of bloody work to make them
edible. :-)
>Now consider, for example, a good stewed or good barbecued (in the
>southern-US sense of the word) meat. These methods of preparation
>require tough cuts of meat totally unsuitable for a steak and usually
>costing rather less than most steak cuts. Are these dishes inferior to
>a good steak? I would say they are not. Some prefer the one, some the
>other, some like both equally well and it may just depend on the mood of
>the moment. There is nothing inherently bad in a tough cuts of meat, on
>the contrary, such cuts are often enough more flavourful.
Yes. Given the effort and time you can make a good meal from such
cuts. In fact, I do enjoy stews and similar in the winter months --
and some of the effort involved can be spread around by freezing the
excess for subsequent "easy cooking" meals. (I *always* end up
with five or six servings when I make a stew or curry. ;-)
>> Actually, one of my favourite breakfasts is liver and bacon -- but I'm
>> buggered if I can make it properly. :-( [In truth, I don't think
>> *anyone* can make it properly since the days of steam on Queensland
>> Rail. Don't know how they did it, but the delight (the *only*
>> delight :) of travelling by rail for two days down the coast of
>> Queensland covered in soot, was the dinning car breaky of liver and
>> bacon served at one point of the trip. I'm drooling with the memory!
>
>Sounds good. Was the liver just pan-fried? Myself, I like Jewish-style
>chopped liver (which is best made with meat grinder/mincer). I also
>like the Spanish preparation of chicken liver fried with onions, garlic
>and white wine. Also chicken liver crostini.
Well, I'm not sure how they did it (if I knew maybe I could duplicate
the results :) but if you mean "was it served as lumps of liver" then,
yes, but not as giant slabs of the stuff. Somehow Qld Rail managed to
create the perfect blend of liver and bacon embedded in a rather
thick, very tasty sauce.
[Snipped details of eel capture, disposal, and cooking suggestions.]
>> Had a look around our local supermarkets this morning to see if your
>> "Matjes" had made it this far from home.
>
>If it is available, it likely to be at a specialised fish monger's and
>then maybe only in such big cities as Sydney or Melbourne. However,
>here is a menu of a restaurant somewhere in Western Australia. They
>offer matjes, so it must be available somewhere.
><http://members.ozemail.com.au/~thel...aurant/Menu.htm>
>
>> But all I could find were
>> bottles of "marinated herring"; and something called "Rollmops" which,
>> I'm led to believe by a mate with most catholic tastes, are inedible!
>
>Personally, I heartily agree with your mate, as I can't stand fish
>marinated in vinegar, but a lot of people like it. Anyway, rollmops is
>a very different thing. The bulk of good matjes is sold just like fresh
>fish either whole, right out of the barrel, or filleted, not prepackaged
>usually. It has to be refrigerated. Matjes can also be sold frozen.
>Matjes packed in oil or brine is available, it is said, but it doesn't
>seem to be at all popular either in Holland or in Germany.
When you say "right out of the barrel", are you referring to salted
fish/fillets? I notice that the restaurant you mentioned above says:
"Matjes Herring fillets - salted herring with chopped onions, spelt
bread and salad"
Assuming the possibility of finding them here in a deli or similar,
what preparation is needed of those "salted herring" fillets before
dining on it?
[Incidentally, that place is flogging plonk at $6/glass, but only
around $18/bottle -- enough to make drunks of us all!]
Cheers, Phred.
--
ppnerkDELETE@THISyahoo.com.INVALID
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| Victor Sack |
Phred <ppnerkDELETETHIS@yahoo.com> wrote:
> When you say "right out of the barrel", are you referring to salted
> fish/fillets?
Yes. It is a young virginal Dutch herring which is lightly salted and
stored in barrels for a few days only, just enough to ferment the gut
enzymes (it is only those enzymes that ferment, not the fish itself, as
would be the case with the Swedish surströmming which many people
consider just rotten :-). Matjes is still practically raw.
> I notice that the restaurant you mentioned above says:
>
> "Matjes Herring fillets - salted herring with chopped onions, spelt
> bread and salad"
>
> Assuming the possibility of finding them here in a deli or similar,
> what preparation is needed of those "salted herring" fillets before
> dining on it?
Be sure it is indeed labelled "matjes", not just "salted herring" which
is different. Matjes fillets need no preparation and can be eaten "as
is" (it's the same with "salted herring", too). However, most often
matjes is served with onion rings or chopped onions, and black rye bread
of the pumpernickel type. You can also add sour cream. Or you can make
a salad with matjes containing all or any of the following: pickled
cucumbers, sour apples, boiled potatoes, hard-boiled eggs, boiled, baked
or pickled beetroots, sour cream, mayonnaise, vinegar, salt and pepper.
> [Incidentally, that place is flogging plonk at $6/glass, but only
> around $18/bottle -- enough to make drunks of us all!]
Maybe theirs is very large glass. :-)
Victor
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| Sheldon |
Victor Sack wrote:
> Phred <ppnerkDELETETHIS@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > When you say "right out of the barrel", are you referring to salted
> > fish/fillets?
>
> Yes. It is a young virginal Dutch herring which is lightly salted and
> stored in barrels for a few days only, just enough to ferment the gut
> enzymes (it is only those enzymes that ferment, not the fish itself, as
> would be the case with the Swedish surstr=F6mming which many people
> consider just rotten :-). Matjes is still practically raw.
>
> > I notice that the restaurant you mentioned above says:
> >
> > "Matjes Herring fillets - salted herring with chopped onions, spelt
> > bread and salad"
> >
> > Assuming the possibility of finding them here in a deli or similar,
> > what preparation is needed of those "salted herring" fillets before
> > dining on it?
>
> Be sure it is indeed labelled "matjes", not just "salted herring" which
> is different. Matjes fillets need no preparation and can be eaten "as
> is" (it's the same with "salted herring", too). However, most often
> matjes is served with onion rings or chopped onions, and black rye bread
> of the pumpernickel type. You can also add sour cream. Or you can make
> a salad with matjes containing all or any of the following: pickled
> cucumbers, sour apples, boiled potatoes, hard-boiled eggs, boiled, baked
> or pickled beetroots, sour cream, mayonnaise, vinegar, salt and pepper.
Matjes simply means herring that has not yet spawned... young herring
that is less fatty and more tender than mature herring... the
antithesis of schmaltz herring... is prepared in as many ways as any
other herring, salted, brined, pickled, even cooked in cans. In the US
matjes is typically offered pickled in wine sauce, whole or fillet
halves. Nowadays in the US matjes is difficut to find other than cut
into small bits in a jar, and even jarred is becoming less available.
NYC appetizing stores usually carry matjes but there are fewer and
fewer of those now too... there are still some old fahioned appetizing
stores in Brighton Beach, Brooklyn, the Russian enclave... there one
can still find the real deal matjes, imported in wooden barrels from
the Baltics. There they will slice and add the sauce, and onions too
if you ask. I don't much care for matjes with pickled onions, if I
have onions at all I prefer they be fresh sliced raw.... if you see
that the matjes is displayed mixed with the onions don't buy, the
pickled onions should be taken from their own separate container. I
also prefer the whole matjes, has better texture than the fillets
(firmer), and a whole matjes costs the same as a fillet so is a better
deal price wise too, a whole fish instead of just a half... I don't
mind working around the bones. I much prefer my bialy and a schmear
with matjes than lox.
Sheldon
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| Victor Sack |
Sheldon <PENMART01@aol.com> wrote:
> Matjes simply means herring that has not yet spawned... young herring
> that is less fatty and more tender than mature herring... the
> antithesis of schmaltz herring... is prepared in as many ways as any
> other herring, salted, brined, pickled, even cooked in cans. In the US
> matjes is typically offered pickled in wine sauce, whole or fillet
> halves. Nowadays in the US matjes is difficut to find other than cut
> into small bits in a jar, and even jarred is becoming less available.
Reading the above info is distressing, I have to say, and not just
because matjes is apparently so hard to find in the US. If the term
"matjes" is used in the US for any kind of young herring preparation, it
is probably yet another example of the general supplanting the
particular in the American version of English, like using 'hamburger' to
mean 'minced/ground beef'. What if one wants to order matjes in its
lightly salted form usual in Holland and Germany? Is one supposed to
describe the manufacturing process to the vendor and hope he even knows
what exactly he is selling?
In Germany, "matjes" is specifically young virginal herring that is
lightly salted. The best is still imported from Holland and is usually
North Sea herring, not Baltic one. Such matjes is only very slightly
salty, soft and plump and almost melting in the mouth - simply
wonderful. Personally, I would be extremely disappointed if I were
served matjes marinated in vinegar and sugar and whatever else is used
in some other herring preparations. There is a good article about
matjes at <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soused_herrings>.
Victor
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| Margaret Suran |
Victor Sack wrote:
> > Phred <ppnerkDELETETHIS@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > >>When you say "right out of the barrel", are you referring to
salted fish/fillets?
>
>
> Yes. It is a young virginal Dutch herring which is lightly salted
> and stored in barrels for a few days only,
Victor, What happens if the "virginal" herring had a little G'spusi
when she found out she is about to be killed and eaten? Is she no
longer worthy of being a Matjes herring or herringette? Are only the
Dutch that strict or is that universal? Who acts as Sittenpolizei,
other herrings or trouts or carps? No wonder that Matjes herrings are
no longer on many menus.
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| Victor Sack |
Margaret Suran <margaret@no.spam.for.me.invalid> wrote:
> Victor Sack wrote:
>
> > Yes. It is a young virginal Dutch herring which is lightly salted
> > and stored in barrels for a few days only,
>
> Victor, What happens if the "virginal" herring had a little G'spusi
> when she found out she is about to be killed and eaten? Is she no
> longer worthy of being a Matjes herring or herringette? Are only the
> Dutch that strict or is that universal? Who acts as Sittenpolizei,
> other herrings or trouts or carps? No wonder that Matjes herrings are
> no longer on many menus.
A Matjes herring, just like a Vestal, is always very proud of her
special status and, again like a Vestal, if she loses her virginity, she
is publicly shamed and sentenced to be buried alive, becoming a gravad
sild in the process. Other Matjes herrings act as Sittenpolizei - they
are the ones most interested in protecting their exclusive status after
all. Trouts and carps would like to take part but are disqualified for
being freshwater fish.
Bubba
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| Margaret Suran |
Victor Sack wrote:
> Margaret Suran <margaret@no.spam.for.me.invalid> wrote:
>
>
>>Victor Sack wrote:
>>
>> > Yes. It is a young virginal Dutch herring which is lightly salted
>> > and stored in barrels for a few days only,
>>
>> Victor, What happens if the "virginal" herring had a little G'spusi
>>when she found out she is about to be killed and eaten? Is she no
>>longer worthy of being a Matjes herring or herringette? Are only the
>>Dutch that strict or is that universal? Who acts as Sittenpolizei,
>>other herrings or trouts or carps? No wonder that Matjes herrings are
>>no longer on many menus.
>
>
> A Matjes herring, just like a Vestal, is always very proud of her
> special status and, again like a Vestal, if she loses her virginity, she
> is publicly shamed and sentenced to be buried alive, becoming a gravad
> sild in the process. Other Matjes herrings act as Sittenpolizei - they
> are the ones most interested in protecting their exclusive status after
> all. Trouts and carps would like to take part but are disqualified for
> being freshwater fish.
>
> Bubba
I do not believe that the little girl herrings are proud of the
"special status" that has been forced upon them. It seems so unfair,
the poor little virgins offered as sacrifices.
As for Trouts and Carps and the double standard for Saltwater Fish and
Freshwater Fish, one of these days there will be a huge uprising in
the waters of this world.
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| Melba's Jammin' |
In article <dhdlkg02cgc@news4.newsguy.com>, Margaret Suran
<margaret@no.spam.for.me.invalid> wrote:
(some snippage of Bubba and Margaret)
> >> Victor, What happens if the "virginal" herring had a little G'spusi
> >>when she found out she is about to be killed and eaten? Is she no
> >>longer worthy of being a Matjes herring or herringette? Are only the
> >>Dutch that strict or is that universal? Who acts as Sittenpolizei,
> >>other herrings or trouts or carps? No wonder that Matjes herrings are
> >>no longer on many menus.
> > A Matjes herring, just like a Vestal, is always very proud of her
> > special status and, again like a Vestal, if she loses her virginity, she
> > is publicly shamed and sentenced to be buried alive, becoming a gravad
> > sild in the process. Other Matjes herrings act as Sittenpolizei - they
> > are the ones most interested in protecting their exclusive status after
> > all. Trouts and carps would like to take part but are disqualified for
> > being freshwater fish.
> >
> > Bubba
>
> I do not believe that the little girl herrings are proud of the
> "special status" that has been forced upon them. It seems so unfair,
> the poor little virgins offered as sacrifices.
Honey, it's been that way since time immemorial. Always are the virgins
sacrificed.
--
-Barb, <http://www.jamlady.eboard.com> Updated 9-26-05
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| Victor Sack |
Margaret Suran <margaret@no.spam.for.me.invalid> wrote:
> Victor Sack wrote:
> >
> > A Matjes herring, just like a Vestal, is always very proud of her
> > special status and, again like a Vestal, if she loses her virginity, she
> > is publicly shamed and sentenced to be buried alive, becoming a gravad
> > sild in the process. Other Matjes herrings act as Sittenpolizei - they
> > are the ones most interested in protecting their exclusive status after
> > all. Trouts and carps would like to take part but are disqualified for
> > being freshwater fish.
>
> I do not believe that the little girl herrings are proud of the
> "special status" that has been forced upon them.
They are extremely proud to become the prized matjes in the afterlife
rather than the lowly, despised rollmöpse!
> It seems so unfair,
> the poor little virgins offered as sacrifices.
Virgins have always been destined to be sacrificed! Besides, it is up
to each little herringette to end up as an admired matjes and not as a
shamed gravad sild.
> As for Trouts and Carps and the double standard for Saltwater Fish and
> Freshwater Fish, one of these days there will be a huge uprising in
> the waters of this world.
This will not be looked upon kindly by the diadromous fishes who won't
agree to share their special privilleges with the fishy hoi polloi.
Using their natural advantages, they will brutally suppress any such
uprising.
Bubba
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| Craig Welch |
On Sat, 24 Sep 2005 10:50:58 GMT, ppnerkDELETETHIS@yahoo.com (Phred)
wrote:
>Had a look around our local supermarkets this morning to see if your
>"Matjes" had made it this far from home. But all I could find were
>bottles of "marinated herring"; and something called "Rollmops" which,
>I'm led to believe by a mate with most catholic tastes, are inedible!
There you go ... we've always got rollmops in the house. Out they
come most weekends, with the gins and tonic.
--
Craig
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