| Zocor - evil, evil, evil - CLICK HERE for the Cooking Forum Index |
| Dan Abel |
So I go see the doctor. I tell him that my blood sugar is too high and
that maybe I need to get my meds altered. Oh no, We don't up the meds
until everything else is exhausted.
So he goes over the other stuff and it's OK. But then he hits the
cholesterol. Now, it's a little high, but I though it was OK based on
what They wanted a year ago. No, they changed the goals. As a
diabetic, They now want the LDL below 70. Excuse me? At this rate,
it's going to be a goal of "negative" in a few years.
I'm already maxed out on my statin (Lovastatin), so he wants to switch
me, but my HMO won't pay, but We Have No Choice. So he sends in the
prescription for Zocor. I get out my credit card before I pick up the
prescription, because I only have like US$50.00 in my wallet. It's
US$15.00, for a 3 month supply. Their math isn't real good, so that's
100 tablets. That's certainly higher than the usual US$5.00 for a
generic, but not exactly a budget breaker.
I take this stuff, and I just get sicker and sicker. But I'm too dense
to figure out that the reason I'm sick is because I'm taking this stuff.
This morning I finally realize that I just changed meds, and maybe I
should check this out. Bingo! From their web site:
upset stomach, gas, heartburn, stomach pain/cramps, loss of appetite,
nausea
As I'm composing an Email to my doctor, I went to check my medical
binder, and lo and behold, I had filed the papers from the pharmacy
there! First side effect: stomach upset!
--
Dan Abel
dabel@sonic.net
Petaluma, California, USA
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| Nancy Young |
"Dan Abel" <dabel@sonic.net> wrote
> As I'm composing an Email to my doctor, I went to check my medical
> binder, and lo and behold, I had filed the papers from the pharmacy
> there! First side effect: stomach upset!
Man, the cure is worse than the ailment, it seems. Think the dr
could have warned you? Maybe the idea is, if you don't eat your
cholesterol might go down.
Sorry you've been feeling ill.
nancy
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| Boron Elgar |
On Mon, 24 Oct 2005 20:06:29 GMT, Dan Abel <dabel@sonic.net> wrote:
>So I go see the doctor. I tell him that my blood sugar is too high and
>that maybe I need to get my meds altered. Oh no, We don't up the meds
>until everything else is exhausted.
>
>So he goes over the other stuff and it's OK. But then he hits the
>cholesterol. Now, it's a little high, but I though it was OK based on
>what They wanted a year ago. No, they changed the goals. As a
>diabetic, They now want the LDL below 70. Excuse me? At this rate,
>it's going to be a goal of "negative" in a few years.
>
>I'm already maxed out on my statin (Lovastatin), so he wants to switch
>me, but my HMO won't pay, but We Have No Choice. So he sends in the
>prescription for Zocor. I get out my credit card before I pick up the
>prescription, because I only have like US$50.00 in my wallet. It's
>US$15.00, for a 3 month supply. Their math isn't real good, so that's
>100 tablets. That's certainly higher than the usual US$5.00 for a
>generic, but not exactly a budget breaker.
>
>I take this stuff, and I just get sicker and sicker. But I'm too dense
>to figure out that the reason I'm sick is because I'm taking this stuff.
>This morning I finally realize that I just changed meds, and maybe I
>should check this out. Bingo! From their web site:
>
>upset stomach, gas, heartburn, stomach pain/cramps, loss of appetite,
>nausea
>
>
>As I'm composing an Email to my doctor, I went to check my medical
>binder, and lo and behold, I had filed the papers from the pharmacy
>there! First side effect: stomach upset!
If you do not like the care your physician is giving you, he does not
listen to your concerns, and you remain his patient, I'd say the
problem is you. Find another doctor.
Diabetics are of particular risk for cardiovascular disease. Statins
are valuable in treating lipid problems.
Boron
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| Paul M. Cook |
"Dan Abel" <dabel@sonic.net> wrote in message
news:dabel-2B780B.13025324102005@typhoon.sonic.net...
> So I go see the doctor. I tell him that my blood sugar is too high and
> that maybe I need to get my meds altered. Oh no, We don't up the meds
> until everything else is exhausted.
>
> So he goes over the other stuff and it's OK. But then he hits the
> cholesterol. Now, it's a little high, but I though it was OK based on
> what They wanted a year ago. No, they changed the goals. As a
> diabetic, They now want the LDL below 70. Excuse me? At this rate,
> it's going to be a goal of "negative" in a few years.
>
> I'm already maxed out on my statin (Lovastatin), so he wants to switch
> me, but my HMO won't pay, but We Have No Choice. So he sends in the
> prescription for Zocor. I get out my credit card before I pick up the
> prescription, because I only have like US$50.00 in my wallet. It's
> US$15.00, for a 3 month supply. Their math isn't real good, so that's
> 100 tablets. That's certainly higher than the usual US$5.00 for a
> generic, but not exactly a budget breaker.
>
> I take this stuff, and I just get sicker and sicker. But I'm too dense
> to figure out that the reason I'm sick is because I'm taking this stuff.
> This morning I finally realize that I just changed meds, and maybe I
> should check this out. Bingo! From their web site:
>
> upset stomach, gas, heartburn, stomach pain/cramps, loss of appetite,
> nausea
>
>
> As I'm composing an Email to my doctor, I went to check my medical
> binder, and lo and behold, I had filed the papers from the pharmacy
> there! First side effect: stomach upset!
>
I had the same effect with Advicor. Since I am now also type II, early
stage, I have very high trigyclerides. Tested at 1080. Yes, 1080. The
Advicor made me feel like my brain was plugged plus I later developed kidney
pain. So now I'm on a new one starting today. They all have really bad
side effects in some people. I'm wondering if the cure is worse than the
disease.
Paul
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| Dan Abel |
In article <djjfo9$480$1@news.monmouth.com>,
"Nancy Young" <qwerty@monmouth.com> wrote:
> Man, the cure is worse than the ailment, it seems.
There's a reason these drugs are only available by prescription and have
a two page flyer that comes with them. They have side effects and such.
> Sorry you've been feeling ill.
Thanks. I'm really hoping that once I stop taking this that my stomach
will come back down to earth.
--
Dan Abel
dabel@sonic.net
Petaluma, California, USA
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| Dan Abel |
In article <ashql11it6rsu3dcfhpp9af2et6o0e9hu6@4ax.com>,
Boron Elgar <boron_elgar@hotmail.com> wrote:
> If you do not like the care your physician is giving you, he does not
> listen to your concerns, and you remain his patient, I'd say the
> problem is you. Find another doctor.
I'm generally pretty happy with him. When you don't feel well,
sometimes you just want to whine.
> Diabetics are of particular risk for cardiovascular disease. Statins
> are valuable in treating lipid problems.
Yeah. The problem isn't so much with the doctor, it's with getting old.
I don't advise it.
:-)
--
Dan Abel
dabel@sonic.net
Petaluma, California, USA
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| notbob |
On 2005-10-24, Dan Abel <dabel@sonic.net> wrote:
> a two page flyer that comes with them.
Yeah, and some of those flyers! I got one that had such small print,
a regular hand-held maginfying glass was useless. I had to use a
jewelers loupe, which is just rediculous.
nb
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| Dean G. |
>
> Yeah. The problem isn't so much with the doctor, it's with getting old.
> I don't advise it.
Unfortunately, the alternative isn't too atractive either...
Dean G.
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On Mon, 24 Oct 2005 20:06:29 GMT, Dan Abel <dabel@sonic.net> wrote:
>So I go see the doctor. I tell him that my blood sugar is too high and
>that maybe I need to get my meds altered. Oh no, We don't up the meds
>until everything else is exhausted.
>
I'd love to know what kind of kick-back
doctors get from drug companys.
When I moved to AZ and found a new doctor,
he insisted on tests, then; "Your cholesterol is a little high,
so we'll put you on this "lifetime" drug."
( In some drug company, the BINGO-JACKPOT alarm goes off again. )
I respectfully declined. He seemed shocked !
I'd love to see how they arrive at the out-of-range numbers.
Then, I want to see the stats of
exactly how much heart disease the drug actually prevented.
I feel the cholesterol pill is like
the morning vitamin, and the morning prayer.
You never really know if it works.
( sceptical of all things medical since the drug advertising blitz )
.....and...should I ask my doctor if Lumitra is "right for me" ???
<rj>
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| Michael \Dog3\ Lonergan |
Dan Abel <dabel@sonic.net> looking for trouble wrote in
news:dabel-2B780B.13025324102005@typhoon.sonic.net:
> So I go see the doctor. I tell him that my blood sugar is too high
> and that maybe I need to get my meds altered. Oh no, We don't up the
> meds until everything else is exhausted.
>
> So he goes over the other stuff and it's OK. But then he hits the
> cholesterol. Now, it's a little high, but I though it was OK based on
> what They wanted a year ago. No, they changed the goals. As a
> diabetic, They now want the LDL below 70. Excuse me? At this rate,
> it's going to be a goal of "negative" in a few years.
>
> I'm already maxed out on my statin (Lovastatin), so he wants to switch
> me, but my HMO won't pay, but We Have No Choice. So he sends in the
> prescription for Zocor. I get out my credit card before I pick up the
> prescription, because I only have like US$50.00 in my wallet. It's
> US$15.00, for a 3 month supply. Their math isn't real good, so that's
> 100 tablets. That's certainly higher than the usual US$5.00 for a
> generic, but not exactly a budget breaker.
>
> I take this stuff, and I just get sicker and sicker. But I'm too
> dense to figure out that the reason I'm sick is because I'm taking
> this stuff. This morning I finally realize that I just changed meds,
> and maybe I should check this out. Bingo! From their web site:
>
> upset stomach, gas, heartburn, stomach pain/cramps, loss of appetite,
> nausea
>
>
> As I'm composing an Email to my doctor, I went to check my medical
> binder, and lo and behold, I had filed the papers from the pharmacy
> there! First side effect: stomach upset!
>
Dan, I take Zocor every night at bedtime. I have never had a problem with
it except the first couple of days I took it. I had muscle cramps but they
went away. So far, so good with me. BTW, my copay for Zocor is $50 US for
30 pills vs the $10 if I could find a generic.
Michael
--
Send email to dog30 at charter dot net
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| Michael \Dog3\ Lonergan |
Dan Abel <dabel@sonic.net> looking for trouble wrote in news:dabel-
4F6929.14200824102005@typhoon.sonic.net:
> In article <djjfo9$480$1@news.monmouth.com>,
> "Nancy Young" <qwerty@monmouth.com> wrote:
>
>
>> Man, the cure is worse than the ailment, it seems.
>
> There's a reason these drugs are only available by prescription and have
> a two page flyer that comes with them. They have side effects and such.
>
>
>> Sorry you've been feeling ill.
>
>
> Thanks. I'm really hoping that once I stop taking this that my stomach
> will come back down to earth.
>
Didn't the doctor tell you not to splash pepper sauce on the pills before
eating?
Seriously, I hope it gets better.
Michael
--
Send email to dog30 at charter dot net
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| Goomba38 |
<RJ> wrote:
> I'd love to see how they arrive at the out-of-range numbers.
> Then, I want to see the stats of
> exactly how much heart disease the drug actually prevented.
>
> I feel the cholesterol pill is like
> the morning vitamin, and the morning prayer.
> You never really know if it works.
> ( sceptical of all things medical since the drug advertising blitz )
>
> ....and...should I ask my doctor if Lumitra is "right for me" ???
>
> <rj>
Actually, those statins have been pretty well proven. It is one drug
that some people shouldn't do without.
Goomba
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| Dan Abel |
In article <dclql11vq2efrurki0gfdgvko9fktt05fi@4ax.com>,
"<RJ>" <baranick@localnet.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Oct 2005 20:06:29 GMT, Dan Abel <dabel@sonic.net> wrote:
>
> >So I go see the doctor. I tell him that my blood sugar is too high and
> >that maybe I need to get my meds altered. Oh no, We don't up the meds
> >until everything else is exhausted.
> >
> I'd love to know what kind of kick-back
> doctors get from drug companys.
Something tells me that he wasn't getting much of a kickback to tell me
that he wouldn't give me more drugs.
:-)
> I feel the cholesterol pill is like
> the morning vitamin, and the morning prayer.
> You never really know if it works.
Certainly. You don't know if it works, but the statistics say that it
helps.
I am increasingly unhappy with "pay for service" medicine. The more
service, the more pay. I belong to an HMO, and the doctors are on
straight salary.
--
Dan Abel
dabel@sonic.net
Petaluma, California, USA
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| Boron Elgar |
On Mon, 24 Oct 2005 21:26:48 GMT, Dan Abel <dabel@sonic.net> wrote:
>In article <ashql11it6rsu3dcfhpp9af2et6o0e9hu6@4ax.com>,
> Boron Elgar <boron_elgar@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>> If you do not like the care your physician is giving you, he does not
>> listen to your concerns, and you remain his patient, I'd say the
>> problem is you. Find another doctor.
>
>
>I'm generally pretty happy with him. When you don't feel well,
>sometimes you just want to whine.
Well understood, then,
>
>
>> Diabetics are of particular risk for cardiovascular disease. Statins
>> are valuable in treating lipid problems.
>
>
>Yeah. The problem isn't so much with the doctor, it's with getting old.
>I don't advise it.
>
>:-)
Think of the alternatives!
I wander the earth courtesy of the miracles of modern medicine and
believe me, I am no spring chicken!
Do keep at your MD about the BG readings, though. If your readings are
so off that you are not feeling well, he really needs to help you
tweak your meds. Some docs are more laissez faire than others. I am
fortunate in having one who lets me treat my T2 almost like a T1...I
have 5 meds to choose from and I dose depending on how my readings
are. There are not too many MDS that will play that game, but since my
Hba1C is usually 5.6 or so, she knows it works for me. That is
key...finding what works for you.
Best of luck.
Boron
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| Michel Boucher |
Dan Abel <dabel@sonic.net> wrote in
news:dabel-2B780B.13025324102005@typhoon.sonic.net:
> I take this stuff, and I just get sicker and sicker.
Strange, I was on Zocor for three months after the cardiac event and I
had no side effects. However, the GP assigned to follow my case for
the first six months switched me to Crestor which is giving me better
results. My cholesterol has been well below the line since then.
--
"Compassion is the chief law of human existence."
Dostoevski, The Idiot
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| RoR |
On Mon, 24 Oct 2005 17:51:20 -0500, Michel Boucher <alsandorz@rogers.com> wrote:
>Dan Abel <dabel@sonic.net> wrote in
>news:dabel-2B780B.13025324102005@typhoon.sonic.net:
>
>> I take this stuff, and I just get sicker and sicker.
>
>Strange, I was on Zocor for three months after the cardiac event and I
>had no side effects. However, the GP assigned to follow my case for
>the first six months switched me to Crestor which is giving me better
>results. My cholesterol has been well below the line since then.
My doc just took me off Lipitor. I was having muscle pain and general lethargy. I have
been on it for years, but now I am getting side effects?
After 2 weeks or so, to flush my system, we will try something else.
He says, my bad cholesterol (he told me, but I forget) is the type that needs meds to get
lower...it's too high to deal with by diet and exercise alone.. I trust him, he's not
been wrong before. And I do insist on explanations for any meds or procedures, after all,
it's my life and my body.
--
Rick R
rorider@gmail.default
replace default with com to email
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| Puester |
Dan Abel wrote:
The problem isn't so much with the doctor, it's with getting old.
> I don't advise it.
>
> :-)
>
Yeah, but it sure beats the alternative!
If I don't wake up with joint pain, I have to pinch
myself hard to make sure I'm alive.
FWIW, I have taken Zocor in the past and now Lipitor
without side effects that I'm aware of. My diuretic
did give me gout but, hey, there's a pill for that, too....
:-(
gloria p
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| kalanamak |
Puester wrote:
> If I don't wake up with joint pain, I have to pinch
> myself hard to make sure I'm alive.
>
I have a new imagine of middle age, because of a happy turn of events
this weekend: when we are young, our friends abound with good news: a
school gotten into, a degree, a child, some exciting author, a cross
country car trip in a 65 Impala...etc. In middle age there is more
silence, or there is bad news: the life of the party turns into a drunk,
divorce, apathy, avid readers who talk about TV, etc.
This weekend, an old college chum I'd lost track of because of the
moroseness and silence he had decended into has rebounded now the sickly
parents he cared for for years have died....house painted, incontinent
animals gone, art work on the walls, a twinkle in his eye. Ah, I said,
one saved from the maw of middle age!
blacksalt
OBFood: Saturday was a beautiful day at the Oly Farmer's Market. Just
off the water at the southern tip of the Puget Sound, a tarry breeze
mixed with roasting nuts and smoked meats. Bins and bins of apples, and
homemade cheese so wonderful...
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| itsjoannotjoann |
Puester wrote:
>
> FWIW, I have taken Zocor in the past and now Lipitor
> without side effects that I'm aware of.
>
> gloria p
I also take Lipitor, with no side affects. At night I also take 1
caplet of 500 milligrams of Niaspan. These two medications have
brought my cholesterol down to 135. Triglycerides are 99, HDL (good
stuff) is 45, and the LDL (bad stuff) is 70.
If you are having cramps, by all means talk to your doctor! I had a
friend who also had cramps (arms) from Zocor and constant, and I do
mean constant, gas from the medication. His doctor switched him and
evidently Zocor is not for you. There's other medication to can take
to lower your cholesterol.
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| Gregory Morrow |
Puester wrote:
> If I don't wake up with joint pain, I have to pinch
> myself hard to make sure I'm alive.
Yeah, when a week goes by without an ache or pain of some type it's a
blessing ;-p
> FWIW, I have taken Zocor in the past and now Lipitor
> without side effects that I'm aware of. My diuretic
> did give me gout but, hey, there's a pill for that, too....
Drink lotsa water for the gout, also a glass or two of black cherry juice a
day might help. Are you taking allopurinol?
--
Best
Greg
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| Michael \Dog3\ Lonergan |
Dan Abel <dabel@sonic.net> looking for trouble wrote in
news:dabel-7B2DE4.15183724102005@typhoon.sonic.net:
> In article <Xns96F9ADB94CED5esadfloons@69.28.186.121>,
> "Michael \"Dog3\" Lonergan" <dog3@invalid.com> wrote:
>
>
>> Dan, I take Zocor every night at bedtime. I have never had a problem
>> with it except the first couple of days I took it. I had muscle
>> cramps but they
>
> Now that you mention it, I've been having muscle cramps also.
>
>:-)
>
> Are you on 80mg?
Yes I am. I have not had any of the other side effects and the cramps went
away. Sounds like you need an alternative medication.
Michael
>
>
>> went away. So far, so good with me. BTW, my copay for Zocor is $50
>> US for 30 pills vs the $10 if I could find a generic.
>
>
> My doctor claimed that it was going generic soon.
>
--
Send email to dog30 at charter dot net
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| Nancy Young |
"notbob" <notbob@nothome.com> wrote
> On 2005-10-24, Dan Abel <dabel@sonic.net> wrote:
>
>> a two page flyer that comes with them.
>
> Yeah, and some of those flyers! I got one that had such small print,
> a regular hand-held maginfying glass was useless. I had to use a
> jewelers loupe, which is just rediculous.
I had a horrible reaction to steroids once, you couldn't read
the list of side effects without eagle vision. I for sure was in
no condition to read it, all that pain and those wacky hallucinations,
dontcha know ... I know, you're supposed to read it first.
Gimme a break, think of *any* possible side effect, it was on
there. Anyway, it was easier to see online, look up your drug
and it's side effects.
Just a little advice for next time.
nancy
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| Wayne Boatwright |
On Mon 24 Oct 2005 09:32:46p, Nancy Young wrote in rec.food.cooking:
>
> "notbob" <notbob@nothome.com> wrote
>
>> On 2005-10-24, Dan Abel <dabel@sonic.net> wrote:
>>
>>> a two page flyer that comes with them.
>>
>> Yeah, and some of those flyers! I got one that had such small print,
>> a regular hand-held maginfying glass was useless. I had to use a
>> jewelers loupe, which is just rediculous.
>
> I had a horrible reaction to steroids once, you couldn't read
> the list of side effects without eagle vision. I for sure was in
> no condition to read it, all that pain and those wacky hallucinations,
> dontcha know ... I know, you're supposed to read it first.
> Gimme a break, think of *any* possible side effect, it was on
> there. Anyway, it was easier to see online, look up your drug
> and it's side effects.
>
> Just a little advice for next time.
And good advice it is. The drugstore we use does supply easy to read
enclosures with our prescriptions and they seem to be very complete.
However, I almost always go to the web for whatever information is
available on a drug.
--
Wayne Boatwright *¿*
_____________________________
http://tinypic.com/eikz78.jpg
Meet Mr. Bailey
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| Nancy Young |
"<RJ>" <baranick@localnet.com> wrote
> When I moved to AZ and found a new doctor,
> he insisted on tests, then; "Your cholesterol is a little high,
> so we'll put you on this "lifetime" drug."
>
> ( In some drug company, the BINGO-JACKPOT alarm goes off again. )
>
> I respectfully declined. He seemed shocked !
Good for you. I think they get sucked into the 'give them a pill'
routine, or maybe patients are 'what pill will fix it' ... who knows.
Next thing you know (just from my observation) you're on the
doctor visit/more pills for every little thing/side effect roller coaster.
Of course, I'm a little extreme in my fear of medical types and I have
to say, it's not really all that misplaced in my experience, but if people
do need stuff, of course they should take it. I'm just talking about
the quick, okay, you're going to be on this lifetime drug. Woah,
back up there, partner.
nancy
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| Nancy Young |
"Wayne Boatwright" <waynesgang@waynes.gang> wrote
> On Mon 24 Oct 2005 09:32:46p, Nancy Young wrote in rec.food.cooking:
>> there. Anyway, it was easier to see online, look up your drug
>> and it's side effects.
>>
>> Just a little advice for next time.
>
> And good advice it is. The drugstore we use does supply easy to read
> enclosures with our prescriptions and they seem to be very complete.
> However, I almost always go to the web for whatever information is
> available on a drug.
Yeah, and in print size you can read.
nancy
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| Boron Elgar |
On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 12:03:59 GMT, Stark <sraven@att.net> wrote:
>In article <djkd2q$i46$1@news.monmouth.com>, Nancy Young
><qwerty@monmouth.com> wrote:
>
>> Good for you. I think they get sucked into the 'give them a pill'
>> routine, or maybe patients are 'what pill will fix it' ... who knows.
>> Next thing you know (just from my observation) you're on the
>> doctor visit/more pills for every little thing/side effect roller coaster.
>>
>> Of course, I'm a little extreme in my fear of medical types and I have
>> to say, it's not really all that misplaced in my experience, but if people
>> do need stuff, of course they should take it. I'm just talking about
>> the quick, okay, you're going to be on this lifetime drug. Woah,
>> back up there, partner.
>>
>> nancy
>>
>>
>Ulcer medication used to be a "lifetime" drug, until their patents ran
>out. Then the medical industry "recognized" a thirty-year-old study
>which proved ulcers were a viral infection and could usually be cured
>in one month using antibiotics and one of those "lifetime" drugs.
If you are going to complain about the medical profession, I recommend
you have your facts straight. Certain ulcers are caused by bacteria
called heliobacter pylori. The definitive work was done in 1982, by J.
Robin Warren and Barry Marshall. Had the cause and effect been known
30 years before that, I rather doubt the state of antibiotics in the
early 50s would have made much of a difference in treatment.
What lifetime drugs were prescribed for ulcers before then? The
general treatment was palliative, along with diet and lifestyle
changes.
>I'm blessed in needing no perpetual prescriptions. But once I did
>develop some joint pain. I sold my sedan, buying a convertible and the
>pain went away. There were some warnings, but so far I've had no side
>effects.
Your not needing medications to live is irrelevant to this discussion.
Boron
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| Goomba38 |
Stark wrote:
> Ulcer medication used to be a "lifetime" drug, until their patents ran
> out. Then the medical industry "recognized" a thirty-year-old study
> which proved ulcers were a viral infection and could usually be cured
> in one month using antibiotics and one of those "lifetime" drugs.
Clarification: SOME ulcers are caused by a virus. NOT all.
Goomba
|
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|
| Goomba38 |
Goomba38 wrote:
> Stark wrote:
>
>
>> Ulcer medication used to be a "lifetime" drug, until their patents ran
>> out. Then the medical industry "recognized" a thirty-year-old study
>> which proved ulcers were a viral infection and could usually be cured
>> in one month using antibiotics and one of those "lifetime" drugs.
>
>
> Clarification: SOME ulcers are caused by a virus. NOT all.
> Goomba
Oh geeez, my mistake in posting after a long night. BACTERIA... SOME
ulcers are caused by naughty bacteria (H. pylori) Erase that "virus"
word I repeated off Stark's post please.
Going to bed now.
Goomba
|
|
|
| Boron Elgar |
On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 08:48:42 -0400, Goomba38 <Goomba38@comcast.net>
wrote:
>Goomba38 wrote:
>
>> Stark wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Ulcer medication used to be a "lifetime" drug, until their patents ran
>>> out. Then the medical industry "recognized" a thirty-year-old study
>>> which proved ulcers were a viral infection and could usually be cured
>>> in one month using antibiotics and one of those "lifetime" drugs.
>>
>>
>> Clarification: SOME ulcers are caused by a virus. NOT all.
>> Goomba
>
>Oh geeez, my mistake in posting after a long night. BACTERIA... SOME
>ulcers are caused by naughty bacteria (H. pylori) Erase that "virus"
>word I repeated off Stark's post please.
>Going to bed now.
>Goomba
I'd still choose you to be my nurse anytime. I just hope it wouldn't
be for your specialty!
Boron
|
|
|
| alsandor |
RoR a =E9crit :
> >Strange, I was on Zocor for three months after the cardiac event and I
> >had no side effects. However, the GP assigned to follow my case for
> >the first six months switched me to Crestor which is giving me better
> >results. My cholesterol has been well below the line since then.
>
> My doc just took me off Lipitor. I was having muscle pain and general
> lethargy. I have been on it for years, but now I am getting side effects?
What is possible is that your dose is too high. When I was taking
Zocor, I believe the dose was 30mg. Lipitor was about the same but
that was 8 or 9 years ago. I do recall a lessening of libido with
lipitor. There are reports that the 40mg dose of Crestor causes some
side effects of concern but none so far have been noted with the 20mg
dose.
Of course, any signs of fatigue and muscle aches are usually attributed
to my advancing age (nearing 60). As long as it's
a=2E a reasonable explanation,
b=2E does not become worse, and
c=2E the medication is generally life preserving
then I tend to agree that it's just a result of age and a sedentary
life style. After all, I felt these things before I took the statin.
Also, keep in mind that one person reacting badly does not mean
everyone will have the same reaction. We just finished dealing with
chemical hysteria with the "teflon is bad for you" debate and part of
what was revealed was that the teflon in the particular case was
probably being misused.
I refuse to be paranoid about medication. Besides, I have to stay
alive for the next 30-40 years just to piss off Wolfie :-)
|
|
|
| Nancy Young |
"Stark" <sraven@att.net> wrote
> In article <djkd2q$i46$1@news.monmouth.com>, Nancy Young
>> do need stuff, of course they should take it. I'm just talking about
>> the quick, okay, you're going to be on this lifetime drug. Woah,
>> back up there, partner.
> Ulcer medication used to be a "lifetime" drug, until their patents ran
> out. Then the medical industry "recognized" a thirty-year-old study
> which proved ulcers were a viral infection and could usually be cured
> in one month using antibiotics and one of those "lifetime" drugs.
I remember some discussion that the h pilori (sp, etc) might be a
culprit of Crohn's disease, as well.
> I'm blessed in needing no perpetual prescriptions. But once I did
> develop some joint pain. I sold my sedan, buying a convertible and the
> pain went away. There were some warnings, but so far I've had no side
> effects.
Man, then I really need a convertible.
nancy
|
|
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| Puester |
Gregory Morrow wrote:
>
> Drink lotsa water for the gout, also a glass or two of black cherry juice a
> day might help. Are you taking allopurinol?
>
Yes.
gloria p
|
|
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| Dimitri |
Newsgroups: rec.food.cooking
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"Dan Abel" <dabel@sonic.net> wrote in message
news:dabel-383019.14231124102005@typhoon.sonic.net...
<snip>
> Yeah. The problem isn't so much with the doctor, it's with getting old.
> I don't advise it.
>
> :-)
>
> --
> Dan Abel
No kidding Dick Tracy where did you get the clue.
To the middle aged out there do your best to avoid getting old. It ain't all its
cracked up to be.
Dimitri
|
|
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| Dimitri |
Newsgroups: rec.food.cooking
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"Puester" <puester@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:82h7f.495437$5N3.412313@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> Dan Abel wrote:
> The problem isn't so much with the doctor, it's with getting old.
>> I don't advise it.
>>
>> :-)
>>
>
> Yeah, but it sure beats the alternative!
>
> If I don't wake up with joint pain, I have to pinch
> myself hard to make sure I'm alive.
>
> FWIW, I have taken Zocor in the past and now Lipitor
> without side effects that I'm aware of. My diuretic
> did give me gout but, hey, there's a pill for that, too....
>
> :-(
> gloria p
Ya me too gout that is - In order, the things that aggravate the uric acid build
up (AKA The Gout)
Alcohol
Coffee
Not enough water
Diet. (shellfish etc)
Dimitri
|
|
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| Goomba38 |
Boron Elgar wrote:
> I'd still choose you to be my nurse anytime. I just hope it wouldn't
> be for your specialty!
>
> Boron
I'm honored :)
And yes, my speciality (trauma) isn't always the best way to meet a nurse.
Good article on Boston.com about ICU nurses at Mass Gen (four part
series). I'll share it here in hopes of promoting nursing a bit :)
http://www.boston.com/news/special/...art1/page1.html
|
|
|
| Goomba38 |
Puester wrote:
> Gregory Morrow wrote:
>
>>
>> Drink lotsa water for the gout, also a glass or two of black cherry
>> juice a
>> day might help. Are you taking allopurinol?
>>
>
> Yes.
>
> gloria p
I knew a man once (cellular biologist, who taught at med school and
should have known better) who preferred to take steroids during his gout
flair ups instead of allopurinol. I thought he was nuts!! Steroids are
wayyyyy more risky in my book compared to allopurinol.
|
|
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| Dimitri |
Newsgroups: rec.food.cooking
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"Goomba38" <Goomba38@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:zamdnQv8KssDBcPeRVn-uQ@comcast.com...
> Puester wrote:
>
>> Gregory Morrow wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Drink lotsa water for the gout, also a glass or two of black cherry juice a
>>> day might help. Are you taking allopurinol?
>>>
>>
>> Yes.
>>
>> gloria p
>
> I knew a man once (cellular biologist, who taught at med school and should
> have known better) who preferred to take steroids during his gout flair ups
> instead of allopurinol. I thought he was nuts!! Steroids are wayyyyy more
> risky in my book compared to allopurinol.
What absolutely "cured the gout in me in less that 12 hours was 100 mg of Vioxx
and they pull the stuff from the market. It was amazing....
Hobbled into bed with Ice Packs to freeze the area - got up in the morning it
was gone.
Dimitri
|
|
|
| Paul M. Cook |
"Boron Elgar" <boron_elgar@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:lp8sl1h3kdjaascmpv8j1sic2mplva1aah@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 12:03:59 GMT, Stark <sraven@att.net> wrote:
>
> >In article <djkd2q$i46$1@news.monmouth.com>, Nancy Young
> ><qwerty@monmouth.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Good for you. I think they get sucked into the 'give them a pill'
> >> routine, or maybe patients are 'what pill will fix it' ... who knows.
> >> Next thing you know (just from my observation) you're on the
> >> doctor visit/more pills for every little thing/side effect roller
coaster.
> >>
> >> Of course, I'm a little extreme in my fear of medical types and I have
> >> to say, it's not really all that misplaced in my experience, but if
people
> >> do need stuff, of course they should take it. I'm just talking about
> >> the quick, okay, you're going to be on this lifetime drug. Woah,
> >> back up there, partner.
> >>
> >> nancy
> >>
> >>
> >Ulcer medication used to be a "lifetime" drug, until their patents ran
> >out. Then the medical industry "recognized" a thirty-year-old study
> >which proved ulcers were a viral infection and could usually be cured
> >in one month using antibiotics and one of those "lifetime" drugs.
>
> If you are going to complain about the medical profession, I recommend
> you have your facts straight. Certain ulcers are caused by bacteria
> called heliobacter pylori. The definitive work was done in 1982, by J.
> Robin Warren and Barry Marshall. Had the cause and effect been known
> 30 years before that, I rather doubt the state of antibiotics in the
> early 50s would have made much of a difference in treatment.
The treatment involves bismuth and tetracycline. Both very common
medications and have been around for decades. So yes, probably even in the
60s ulcers could have been cured with available technology.
And the whole reason it took so long for this to become a common treatment
is that the drug companies were very effective in suppressing any research
that would have led to treatments not involving their very expensive
medications. It is not a coincidence that ulcer cures were finally approved
in this country when patents for ulcer drugs like Zantac ran out and the
meds were sold over the counter.
Cures are not nearly so profitable as the disease. Keep the patient sick by
only treating symptoms and you have a customer for life. That is the way it
works in this country and many others. Not to digress too far but this is
also why marijuana is a long way from being legally prescribed despite it
having proven and valuable therapuetic properties. It's just too cheap to
make, it's just a simple plant and you can't patent it.
Paul
|
|
|
| Dimitri |
Newsgroups: rec.food.cooking
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"Goomba38" <Goomba38@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:jKCdnV4RNug4AcPeRVn-pg@comcast.com...
> Dimitri wrote:
>
>> What absolutely "cured the gout in me in less that 12 hours was 100 mg of
>> Vioxx and they pull the stuff from the market. It was amazing....
>
> Yeah, I've heard that before! A lot of people felt Vioxx was the only drug
> that worked for their various aches and pains, particularly arthritis. Some
> have yet to find adequate replacement meds.
> Goomba
Shhhh I sandbagged some just in case. IIRC the problem was with long term use.
Dimitri
|
|
|
| Boron Elgar |
On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 21:41:39 GMT, "Paul M. Cook"
<pmBERMUDA_SHORTScook@gte.net> wrote:
>
>"Boron Elgar" <boron_elgar@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:lp8sl1h3kdjaascmpv8j1sic2mplva1aah@4ax.com...
>> On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 12:03:59 GMT, Stark <sraven@att.net> wrote:
>>
>> >In article <djkd2q$i46$1@news.monmouth.com>, Nancy Young
>> ><qwerty@monmouth.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Good for you. I think they get sucked into the 'give them a pill'
>> >> routine, or maybe patients are 'what pill will fix it' ... who knows.
>> >> Next thing you know (just from my observation) you're on the
>> >> doctor visit/more pills for every little thing/side effect roller
>coaster.
>> >>
>> >> Of course, I'm a little extreme in my fear of medical types and I have
>> >> to say, it's not really all that misplaced in my experience, but if
>people
>> >> do need stuff, of course they should take it. I'm just talking about
>> >> the quick, okay, you're going to be on this lifetime drug. Woah,
>> >> back up there, partner.
>> >>
>> >> nancy
>> >>
>> >>
>> >Ulcer medication used to be a "lifetime" drug, until their patents ran
>> >out. Then the medical industry "recognized" a thirty-year-old study
>> >which proved ulcers were a viral infection and could usually be cured
>> >in one month using antibiotics and one of those "lifetime" drugs.
>>
>> If you are going to complain about the medical profession, I recommend
>> you have your facts straight. Certain ulcers are caused by bacteria
>> called heliobacter pylori. The definitive work was done in 1982, by J.
>> Robin Warren and Barry Marshall. Had the cause and effect been known
>> 30 years before that, I rather doubt the state of antibiotics in the
>> early 50s would have made much of a difference in treatment.
>
>
>The treatment involves bismuth and tetracycline. Both very common
>medications and have been around for decades. So yes, probably even in the
>60s ulcers could have been cured with available technology.
The sentence" a thirty-year-old study which proved ulcers were a viral
infection ..." Was quoted. Since the "proof" came in 1982, a study 30
years earlier would have been 1952. The patent for tetracycline was
issued in 1955.
Treatment is complicated, even today. You may refer to the link below
to see more than my quote:
'H. pylori peptic ulcers are treated with drugs that kill the
bacteria, reduce stomach acid, and protect the stomach lining.
Antibiotics are used to kill the bacteria. Two types of
acid-suppressing drugs might be used: H2 blockers and proton pump
inhibitors.'
http://digestive.niddk.nih.gov/ddis...pubs/hpylori/#8
>And the whole reason it took so long for this to become a common treatment
>is that the drug companies were very effective in suppressing any research
>that would have led to treatments not involving their very expensive
>medications. It is not a coincidence that ulcer cures were finally approved
>in this country when patents for ulcer drugs like Zantac ran out and the
>meds were sold over the counter.
Bull****. Provide citations or zip it. Ranitidine was still in patent
when antibiotics were being used for certain ulcers.
>Cures are not nearly so profitable as the disease. Keep the patient sick by
>only treating symptoms and you have a customer for life. That is the way it
>works in this country and many others. Not to digress too far but this is
>also why marijuana is a long way from being legally prescribed despite it
>having proven and valuable therapuetic properties. It's just too cheap to
>make, it's just a simple plant and you can't patent it.
Do you really think there is collusion among all the medical
researchers, the govts of the world and the big pharmas to suppress
cures for things like cancer, diabetes, AIDS, and heart disease?
I dun thin so, Lucy.
But have yourself a jolly ride in a black helicopter.
Boron
|
|
|
| Goomba38 |
Boron Elgar wrote:
> Do you really think there is collusion among all the medical
> researchers, the govts of the world and the big pharmas to suppress
> cures for things like cancer, diabetes, AIDS, and heart disease?
>
> I dun thin so, Lucy.
>
> But have yourself a jolly ride in a black helicopter.
>
> Boron
I agree.. but recalling that Paul would vote for a ban to breastfeeding
on airplanes if he had his way. LOL
Goomba
|
|
|
| Boron Elgar |
On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 18:52:31 -0400, Goomba38 <Goomba38@comcast.net>
wrote:
>Boron Elgar wrote:
>
>> Do you really think there is collusion among all the medical
>> researchers, the govts of the world and the big pharmas to suppress
>> cures for things like cancer, diabetes, AIDS, and heart disease?
>>
>> I dun thin so, Lucy.
>>
>> But have yourself a jolly ride in a black helicopter.
>>
>> Boron
>
>I agree.. but recalling that Paul would vote for a ban to breastfeeding
>on airplanes if he had his way. LOL
>Goomba
I'd look damn funny breastfeeding my twins on a plane. Of course, I
did it quite regularly 17-18 years ago! That was FUN!
Boron
|
|
|
| notbob |
On 2005-10-25, Nancy Young <qwerty@monmouth.com> wrote:
> Gimme a break, think of *any* possible side effect, it was on
> there. Anyway, it was easier to see online, look up your drug
> and it's side effects.
>
> Just a little advice for next time.
I was put on a high blood pressure beta-blocker. The doc over
subscribed and my heart would go into almost arrest because the dose
was too high. I reduced my own dosage by half and stopped the near
heart attack episodes I was experiencing just sitting on my couch.
After going through a half dozen doctors I ran into the original who
over prescribed in the first place and explained what happened. He
goes, "hmmmm", and prescribes a new supplemental drug to the original
beta-blocker. Amazingly it works. My blood pressure drops like a
rock. 3 mos later on a follow up visit, he asks me if I am
experiencing any unusual coughing. Well, Hell yes I am!! Not a real
hassle, but I thought I had a minor throat irratation that would
eventually go away. NO! ...it's a side effect to the beta-blocker
supplement and neither my doc nor the pharmacist ever said a damn
thing!
So, here's my advice. Grab your doctor by the nuts and squeeze 'em
till he coughs up with the REAL side effects! Then, grab a cane from
your pharmacy's gimp rack and threaten the drug doc with a broken
femur unless he 'splains every long-term effect and contraindication.
Then, cuz they're in it together, look on the web at a buncha fag
natural food wholistic supplement scammers who will be more than
happy to tell you all the bad things about your drug. They'll all
lie like rugs, but it'll give you a good cross section. Then make
your own decision and drink two martinis. ;)
nb
|
|
|
| notbob |
On 2005-10-26, notbob <notbob@nothome.com> wrote:
> subscribed....
Oops ...prescribed
nb
|
|
|
| Paul M. Cook |
"Boron Elgar" <boron_elgar@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ueatl19i5st0p5hj191st0dsjoogaeajj0@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 21:41:39 GMT, "Paul M. Cook"
> <pmBERMUDA_SHORTScook@gte.net> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Boron Elgar" <boron_elgar@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >news:lp8sl1h3kdjaascmpv8j1sic2mplva1aah@4ax.com...
> >> On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 12:03:59 GMT, Stark <sraven@att.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> >In article <djkd2q$i46$1@news.monmouth.com>, Nancy Young
> >> ><qwerty@monmouth.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Good for you. I think they get sucked into the 'give them a pill'
> >> >> routine, or maybe patients are 'what pill will fix it' ... who
knows.
> >> >> Next thing you know (just from my observation) you're on the
> >> >> doctor visit/more pills for every little thing/side effect roller
> >coaster.
> >> >>
> >> >> Of course, I'm a little extreme in my fear of medical types and I
have
> >> >> to say, it's not really all that misplaced in my experience, but if
> >people
> >> >> do need stuff, of course they should take it. I'm just talking
about
> >> >> the quick, okay, you're going to be on this lifetime drug. Woah,
> >> >> back up there, partner.
> >> >>
> >> >> nancy
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >Ulcer medication used to be a "lifetime" drug, until their patents ran
> >> >out. Then the medical industry "recognized" a thirty-year-old study
> >> >which proved ulcers were a viral infection and could usually be cured
> >> >in one month using antibiotics and one of those "lifetime" drugs.
> >>
> >> If you are going to complain about the medical profession, I recommend
> >> you have your facts straight. Certain ulcers are caused by bacteria
> >> called heliobacter pylori. The definitive work was done in 1982, by J.
> >> Robin Warren and Barry Marshall. Had the cause and effect been known
> >> 30 years before that, I rather doubt the state of antibiotics in the
> >> early 50s would have made much of a difference in treatment.
> >
> >
> >The treatment involves bismuth and tetracycline. Both very common
> >medications and have been around for decades. So yes, probably even in
the
> >60s ulcers could have been cured with available technology.
>
> The sentence" a thirty-year-old study which proved ulcers were a viral
> infection ..." Was quoted. Since the "proof" came in 1982, a study 30
> years earlier would have been 1952. The patent for tetracycline was
> issued in 1955.
>
> Treatment is complicated, even today. You may refer to the link below
> to see more than my quote:
>
> 'H. pylori peptic ulcers are treated with drugs that kill the
> bacteria, reduce stomach acid, and protect the stomach lining.
> Antibiotics are used to kill the bacteria. Two types of
> acid-suppressing drugs might be used: H2 blockers and proton pump
> inhibitors.'
>
> http://digestive.niddk.nih.gov/ddis...pubs/hpylori/#8
>
>
> >And the whole reason it took so long for this to become a common
treatment
> >is that the drug companies were very effective in suppressing any
research
> >that would have led to treatments not involving their very expensive
> >medications. It is not a coincidence that ulcer cures were finally
approved
> >in this country when patents for ulcer drugs like Zantac ran out and the
> >meds were sold over the counter.
>
> Bull****. Provide citations or zip it. Ranitidine was still in patent
> when antibiotics were being used for certain ulcers.
Citations? Look around. The whole ulcer therapy story has been around for
quote some time and it exemplifies the profit motives of todays' "health"
care system.
> >Cures are not nearly so profitable as the disease. Keep the patient sick
by
> >only treating symptoms and you have a customer for life. That is the way
it
> >works in this country and many others. Not to digress too far but this
is
> >also why marijuana is a long way from being legally prescribed despite it
> >having proven and valuable therapuetic properties. It's just too cheap
to
> >make, it's just a simple plant and you can't patent it.
>
> Do you really think there is collusion among all the medical
> researchers, the govts of the world and the big pharmas to suppress
> cures for things like cancer, diabetes, AIDS, and heart disease?
Yes. The drug companies call the shots. The AMA is deeply tied to the drug
companies. All a statement of fact and for somebody to not know it is a
sign that they simply don't know very much. It's all about money.
> I dun thin so, Lucy.
Think what you want to but it changes nothing.
> But have yourself a jolly ride in a black helicopter.
Yeah yeah yeah. We all know that drug companiues are purely altruistic and
only have the very best interest of mankind at heart. Always been that way,
too. Now have a cookie and some milk and go hug your mommy.
Paul
|
|
|
| Paul M. Cook |
"Goomba38" <Goomba38@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:femdna5OB8WyKsPeRVn-1g@comcast.com...
> Boron Elgar wrote:
>
> > Do you really think there is collusion among all the medical
> > researchers, the govts of the world and the big pharmas to suppress
> > cures for things like cancer, diabetes, AIDS, and heart disease?
> >
> > I dun thin so, Lucy.
> >
> > But have yourself a jolly ride in a black helicopter.
> >
> > Boron
>
> I agree.. but recalling that Paul would vote for a ban to breastfeeding
> on airplanes if he had his way. LOL
In fact I'd ban all children unless drugged into unconsciousness, too.
Paul
|
|
|
| kalanamak |
Paul M. Cook wrote:
> Yeah yeah yeah. We all know that drug companiues are purely altruistic and
> only have the very best interest of mankind at heart. Always been that way,
> too. Now have a cookie and some milk and go hug your mommy.
>
> Paul
>
>
The point being missed is that most "antacids", whether over the counter
or prescription, are taken for heartburn, not ulcers. And without losing
that rubbertire and giving up coffee, chocolate, booze, and (in my case)
bananas, people take these for a long time. There are also people with
gastritis who don't get a frank ulcer, but whose life is much better
with chronic reduction of acidity in the stomach. Ditto people whose
reflux gets into their trachea and gives them a chronic cough or
hoarseness. Gastric ulcers are a small part of the PPI or H2-blocker market.
And, lest it is forgotten, duodenal ulcers are a different creature than
gastric ulcers.
blacksalt
who is old enough to remember all those ulcer-reducing surgeries now
largely obsolete, and who is quite sure if a drug company had figured
out a way to horn in on getting the money instead of surgeons, no way
would they have held back.
|
|
|
| Boron Elgar |
On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 01:04:27 GMT, "Paul M. Cook"
<pmBERMUDA_SHORTScook@gte.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> Bull****. Provide citations or zip it. Ranitidine was still in patent
>> when antibiotics were being used for certain ulcers.
>
>Citations? Look around. The whole ulcer therapy story has been around for
>quote some time and it exemplifies the profit motives of todays' "health"
>care system.
What "ulcer therapy story"? Can to offer a few facts or are you too
busy slinging bull****?
>
>> Do you really think there is collusion among all the medical
>> researchers, the govts of the world and the big pharmas to suppress
>> cures for things like cancer, diabetes, AIDS, and heart disease?
>
>Yes. The drug companies call the shots. The AMA is deeply tied to the drug
>companies. All a statement of fact and for somebody to not know it is a
>sign that they simply don't know very much. It's all about money.
You're a flaming idiot.
>
>> I dun thin so, Lucy.
>
>Think what you want to but it changes nothing.
I am not really worried about changing the mind of a conspiracy
theorist who despises children. You're now at the top of TWO of my
**** lists.
>
>> But have yourself a jolly ride in a black helicopter.
>
>Yeah yeah yeah. We all know that drug companiues are purely altruistic and
>only have the very best interest of mankind at heart. Always been that way,
>too. Now have a cookie and some milk and go hug your mommy.
And you lie.
Now go have some hemlock and go **** yourself.
boron
|
|
|
| Paul M. Cook |
"Boron Elgar" <boron_elgar@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:d6mtl1tan1ofb77mjrgepv3r0jltrv09q8@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 01:04:27 GMT, "Paul M. Cook"
> <pmBERMUDA_SHORTScook@gte.net> wrote:
>
> >
>
> >>
> >> Bull****. Provide citations or zip it. Ranitidine was still in patent
> >> when antibiotics were being used for certain ulcers.
> >
> >Citations? Look around. The whole ulcer therapy story has been around
for
> >quote some time and it exemplifies the profit motives of todays' "health"
> >care system.
>
> What "ulcer therapy story"? Can to offer a few facts or are you too
> busy slinging bull****?
I first read of ulcer cures being perfomed in Australia when I was a senior
in college in 1984. So there is nothing new about it. The doctor
interviewed expressed frustration that the AMA would not so much as even
begin clinical testing of his procedure. The AMA finally relinquished
around 1992 if I recall my timeframe properly. But even then they only
allowed extremely limited testing of what they called a "purely anecdotal
connection." They claimed it was to safeguard public health. Bismuth and
tetracycline? Public health? Palease!!!!!
>
> >> Do you really think there is collusion among all the medical
> >> researchers, the govts of the world and the big pharmas to suppress
> >> cures for things like cancer, diabetes, AIDS, and heart disease?
> >
> >Yes. The drug companies call the shots. The AMA is deeply tied to the
drug
> >companies. All a statement of fact and for somebody to not know it is a
> >sign that they simply don't know very much. It's all about money.
>
> You're a flaming idiot.
No I rather think you are pr at very least hopelessly naive. Examples
abound of drug company collusions with researchers and the AMA. They are
quite commonplace.
> >> I dun thin so, Lucy.
> >
> >Think what you want to but it changes nothing.
>
> I am not really worried about changing the mind of a conspiracy
> theorist who despises children. You're now at the top of TWO of my
> **** lists.
It's always a CT theory isn't it? I'd call it good old fashioned
capitalism. We're dealing with huindr4eds of billions of dollars per year
here. The greed is systemic.
And as for your **** list, yawn.
> >> But have yourself a jolly ride in a black helicopter.
> >
> >Yeah yeah yeah. We all know that drug companiues are purely altruistic
and
> >only have the very best interest of mankind at heart. Always been that
way,
> >too. Now have a cookie and some milk and go hug your mommy.
>
> And you lie.
No I don't. You are ignorant and cannot accept your own limitations so you
brand everything contrary to be a CT theory. Very common and typical ploy
of an ignorant ass with their back up against a wall and no way to prove
*their* theory.
> Now go have some hemlock and go **** yourself.
I'll have some spiced tea instead and I have a date on Friday so I'll pass
on the latter.
Paul
|
|
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| no_one@no_where.invalid |
Dan Abel <dabel@sonic.net> wrote:
snip
>So he goes over the other stuff and it's OK. But then he hits the
>cholesterol. Now, it's a little high, but I though it was OK based on
>what They wanted a year ago. No, they changed the goals. As a
>diabetic, They now want the LDL below 70. Excuse me? At this rate,
>it's going to be a goal of "negative" in a few years.
>
Mmmmm, let see if we can figure this out. Seven of the nine on the
FDA advisory group that recommend the lower figure were connected to
the drug industry. Those lower figures were discounted by the medical
industry right after the truth came out. Tell your doctor to get with
the truth.
--
Help make Usenet a better place: English is read
downwards,please don't top post. Trim replies to
quote only relevant text.
|
|
|
| Paul M. Cook |
"kalanamak" <kalanamak@qwest.net> wrote in message
news:HRA7f.59$_j6.591@news.uswest.net...
> Paul M. Cook wrote:
>
> > Yeah yeah yeah. We all know that drug companiues are purely altruistic
and
> > only have the very best interest of mankind at heart. Always been that
way,
> > too. Now have a cookie and some milk and go hug your mommy.
> >
> > Paul
> >
> >
>
> The point being missed is that most "antacids", whether over the counter
> or prescription, are taken for heartburn, not ulcers. And without losing
> that rubbertire and giving up coffee, chocolate, booze, and (in my case)
> bananas, people take these for a long time. There are also people with
> gastritis who don't get a frank ulcer, but whose life is much better
> with chronic reduction of acidity in the stomach. Ditto people whose
> reflux gets into their trachea and gives them a chronic cough or
> hoarseness. Gastric ulcers are a small part of the PPI or H2-blocker
market.
> And, lest it is forgotten, duodenal ulcers are a different creature than
> gastric ulcers.
> blacksalt
> who is old enough to remember all those ulcer-reducing surgeries now
> largely obsolete, and who is quite sure if a drug company had figured
> out a way to horn in on getting the money instead of surgeons, no way
> would they have held back.
One, surgery like that nets the doctor perhaps a few grand. Now 30-40 years
on a prescription med can get you upwards of a quarter million or even more.
Do the math.
Doctors cannot just do anything they want to whenever they want to. They
have extremely limited guidelines set up by the AMA which is also very
closely associated with the drug companies. The latter 2 tell doctors what
they can or cannot do. Any doctor who goes against this risks losing their
license to practice.
Seems pretty obvious who benefits from a one-time cure versus lifetime
alleviation of symptoms. It's all about money and in this case billions and
billions and billions of it.
Paul
|
|
|
| Dan Abel |
In article <Xns96F9BFD11E45Amortimertherat@216.196.97.142>,
Michel Boucher <alsandorz@rogers.com> wrote:
> Dan Abel <dabel@sonic.net> wrote in
> news:dabel-2B780B.13025324102005@typhoon.sonic.net:
>
> > I take this stuff, and I just get sicker and sicker.
>
> Strange, I was on Zocor for three months after the cardiac event and I
> had no side effects. However, the GP assigned to follow my case for
I Emailed my doc to say I was stopping it. He replied, saying that I
should stop, but start again once I'm feeling better. He said that
there is a nasty stomach virus hitting a lot of people, and perhaps that
was the problem. I think he's right since I haven't taken the Zocor for
two days and I still feel pretty bad.
ObFood: My wife made cinnamon rolls this morning. She is making scones
for tomorrow morning. Unfortunately, since I'm on the left coast and
she is on the wrong coast ( oops, right coast), I'm not getting any. Of
course, I'm also not getting any, but when you're sick, you aren't all
that interested anyway.
:-)
The place she is staying is all vegetarian. It sounds really, really
good , though, even though we aren't vegetarian. She said that you can
ask for Extra Protein, but she didn't think that she would. I think
that she is going to have a major meat craving by this weekend, though.
http://www.rowecenter.org/
--
Dan Abel
dabel@sonic.net
Petaluma, California, USA
|
|
|
| Paul M. Cook |
<no_one@no_where.invalid> wrote in message
news:udstl15hia26ksgg8u9imle78aemb07hjh@4ax.com...
> Dan Abel <dabel@sonic.net> wrote:
>
> snip
> >So he goes over the other stuff and it's OK. But then he hits the
> >cholesterol. Now, it's a little high, but I though it was OK based on
> >what They wanted a year ago. No, they changed the goals. As a
> >diabetic, They now want the LDL below 70. Excuse me? At this rate,
> >it's going to be a goal of "negative" in a few years.
> >
> Mmmmm, let see if we can figure this out. Seven of the nine on the
> FDA advisory group that recommend the lower figure were connected to
> the drug industry. Those lower figures were discounted by the medical
> industry right after the truth came out. Tell your doctor to get with
> the truth.
Conspiracy theory! Conspiracy theory!
Shame on you. To even imply the drug industry put profits above people is
shameless and unamerican. You rat-commie *******!
Paul
|
|
|
| Paul M. Cook |
"Dimitri" <Dimitri_C@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:C6t7f.2203$Y61.225@newssvr33.news.prodigy.com...
>
> "Puester" <puester@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
> news:82h7f.495437$5N3.412313@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> > Dan Abel wrote:
> > The problem isn't so much with the doctor, it's with getting old.
> >> I don't advise it.
> >>
> >> :-)
> >>
> >
> > Yeah, but it sure beats the alternative!
> >
> > If I don't wake up with joint pain, I have to pinch
> > myself hard to make sure I'm alive.
> >
> > FWIW, I have taken Zocor in the past and now Lipitor
> > without side effects that I'm aware of. My diuretic
> > did give me gout but, hey, there's a pill for that, too....
> >
> > :-(
> > gloria p
>
> Ya me too gout that is - In order, the things that aggravate the uric acid
build
> up (AKA The Gout)
>
> Alcohol
> Coffee
> Not enough water
> Diet. (shellfish etc)
Don't forget tomatoes. I gave myself a bad case of gout 3 years ago while
feasting on a glut of really good tomatoes.
Paul
|
|
|
| Stark |
In article <lp8sl1h3kdjaascmpv8j1sic2mplva1aah@4ax.com>, Boron Elgar
<boron_elgar@hotmail.com> wrote:
> What lifetime drugs were prescribed for ulcers before then? The
> general treatment was palliative, along with diet and lifestyle
> changes.
>
Tagamet and Zantac.
|
|
|
| Dan Abel |
In article <lsC7f.7331$tl5.2728@trnddc02>,
"Paul M. Cook" <pmBERMUDA_SHORTScook@gte.net> wrote:
> One, surgery like that nets the doctor perhaps a few grand. Now 30-40 years
> on a prescription med can get you upwards of a quarter million or even more.
> Do the math.
I was an accounting student. I never became an accountant, though (I
just retired from 25 years as a computer person). One of my accounting
teachers always lectured:
"Follow the money".
Don't just count it, trace it. Where did it come from and most
importantly, where is it going?
The doctor who intially recommends surgery doesn't get paid anything.
It's the doctor who does the surgery who gets some money. Neither
doctor gets paid directly for prescribing medicine.
> Doctors cannot just do anything they want to whenever they want to. They
> have extremely limited guidelines set up by the AMA which is also very
> closely associated with the drug companies. The latter 2 tell doctors what
> they can or cannot do. Any doctor who goes against this risks losing their
> license to practice.
I think that there's a lot of room for debate as to just how close
things are, and how much power any group has.
> Seems pretty obvious who benefits from a one-time cure versus lifetime
> alleviation of symptoms. It's all about money and in this case billions and
> billions and billions of it.
It's all about money. That's the American Way (and the "A" in AMA
stands for American). Our friends in Canada, some of whom are reading
this thread, do things differently. Prescription drugs in Canada, from
what I understand, are much different.
And of course, there's even people who live in other countries besides
the US and Canada.
--
Dan Abel
dabel@sonic.net
Petaluma, California, USA
|
|
|
| Stark |
In article <ueatl19i5st0p5hj191st0dsjoogaeajj0@4ax.com>, Boron Elgar
<boron_elgar@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Do you really think there is collusion among all the medical
> researchers, the govts of the world and the big pharmas to suppress
> cures for things like cancer, diabetes, AIDS, and heart disease?
>
Probably. But the peptic ulcer case is definitive proof, unless of
course you persist with your "faith-based" facts. Can't argue with a
wing nut; just need to indict 'em.
|
|
|
| Boron Elgar |
On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 11:45:52 GMT, Stark <sraven@att.net> wrote:
>In article <ueatl19i5st0p5hj191st0dsjoogaeajj0@4ax.com>, Boron Elgar
><boron_elgar@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>> Do you really think there is collusion among all the medical
>> researchers, the govts of the world and the big pharmas to suppress
>> cures for things like cancer, diabetes, AIDS, and heart disease?
>>
>Probably. But the peptic ulcer case is definitive proof, unless of
>course you persist with your "faith-based" facts. Can't argue with a
>wing nut; just need to indict 'em.
You have definitive proof? Let's see it.
I have provided facts, not tin-foil hat ravings. If you have facts to
back up your claims, then present them. Until then, you offer
unsubstantiated nonsense.
Boron
|
|
|
|
There's that GOUT thing again.
Is it common to guys in RFC ?
I've also experienced the "roofing nail in the foot".
I have a list of forbidden foods; turkey, sausage, beans etc.
Mr Gout only visits after a "stack-up"
ie; Bean soup, sausage next day, leftover bean soup,
turkey sammich next day, GOUT !
And just when nutritionists are saying;
"Eat more beans... eat more turkey !"
On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 06:47:08 GMT, "Paul M. Cook" <pmBERMUDA_SHORTScook@gte.net>
wrote:
>
>"Dimitri" <Dimitri_C@prodigy.net> wrote in message
>news:C6t7f.2203$Y61.225@newssvr33.news.prodigy.com...
>>
>> "Puester" <puester@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
>> news:82h7f.495437$5N3.412313@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>> > Dan Abel wrote:
>> > The problem isn't so much with the doctor, it's with getting old.
>> >> I don't advise it.
>> >>
>> >> :-)
>> >>
>> >
>> > Yeah, but it sure beats the alternative!
>> >
>> > If I don't wake up with joint pain, I have to pinch
>> > myself hard to make sure I'm alive.
>> >
>> > FWIW, I have taken Zocor in the past and now Lipitor
>> > without side effects that I'm aware of. My diuretic
>> > did give me gout but, hey, there's a pill for that, too....
>> >
>> > :-(
>> > gloria p
>>
>> Ya me too gout that is - In order, the things that aggravate the uric acid
>build
>> up (AKA The Gout)
>>
>> Alcohol
>> Coffee
>> Not enough water
>> Diet. (shellfish etc)
>
>Don't forget tomatoes. I gave myself a bad case of gout 3 years ago while
>feasting on a glut of really good tomatoes.
>
>Paul
>
<rj>
|
|
|
| Pan Ohco |
On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 11:45:52 GMT, Stark wrote:
>In article <ueatl19i5st0p5hj191st0dsjoogaeajj0@4ax.com>, Boron Elgar
><boron_elgar@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>> Do you really think there is collusion among all the medical
>> researchers, the govts of the world and the big pharmas to suppress
>> cures for things like cancer, diabetes, AIDS, and heart disease?
>>
>Probably. But the peptic ulcer case is definitive proof, unless of
>course you persist with your "faith-based" facts. Can't argue with a
>wing nut; just need to indict 'em.
The problem of all conspiracies is that some one on the inside all
ways talks. And I think that if this conspiracy has been going on
since the 50s ( per your statements), there should have been a whistle
blower by now.
Now if you were to state that you were the man on the grassy knoll,
you might add some weight to your arguments.
Pan Ohco
|
|
|
| Paul M. Cook |
> And of course, there's even people who live in other countries besides
> the US and Canada.
Got any cites to support that allegation?
Paul
|
|
|
| Paul M. Cook |
"Boron Elgar" <boron_elgar@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:29vul1p9h7jb1v1ef6gh8t2uu9aaqi4psv@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 11:45:52 GMT, Stark <sraven@att.net> wrote:
>
> >In article <ueatl19i5st0p5hj191st0dsjoogaeajj0@4ax.com>, Boron Elgar
> ><boron_elgar@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >> Do you really think there is collusion among all the medical
> >> researchers, the govts of the world and the big pharmas to suppress
> >> cures for things like cancer, diabetes, AIDS, and heart disease?
> >>
> >Probably. But the peptic ulcer case is definitive proof, unless of
> >course you persist with your "faith-based" facts. Can't argue with a
> >wing nut; just need to indict 'em.
>
>
> You have definitive proof? Let's see it.
>
> I have provided facts, not tin-foil hat ravings. If you have facts to
> back up your claims, then present them. Until then, you offer
> unsubstantiated nonsense.
You presented not one fact. You provided an emotional reaction to a fact.
The fact being that the AMA suppressed a cure for ulcers for 20 years
because it would have had a direct and severe impact on the drug industry.
Even in the 1980s the cure rate from the treatment being employed in
Australia was in the 10s of thousands and nobody | | | | |
