| usual suspect |
tracym@askme.net wrote:
> I now have to say, I think it's pretty danged high.
Zero-percent. You lose. Loser.
> They are both trolling this ng,
Trolling: Deliberately posting false information in order to
elicit responses from people who really want to help. A typical
response might be, "No, Bart Simpson was NOT one of our founding
fathers."
http://www.vikont.com/clients/glossary.htm
Neither of us trolls.
> Now it's also been revealed that they both share
> the same disbelief that the US is torturing people these days.
It's your claim -- YOU PROVE the United States "is torturing people
these days."
<snip ad hominem attack>
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| usual suspect |
tracym@askme.net wrote:
>>I find they both usually offer informed replies. Aside from the
>>snipes, the arguments they present aren't demented imo.
>
> You think running around calling people "killer" at every
> opportunity is not demented?
No, but it's amusing.
> I have an issue with your standards.
I have issues with yours, "vegan."
> I think you contradict yourself:
I shouldn't defend Joe, especially considering what he wrote about me,
but he didn't contradict himself. He didn't accuse me of being demented,
nor did he suggest as much.
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| Beach Runner |
usual suspect wrote:
> tracym@askme.net wrote:
>
>>> I find they both usually offer informed replies. Aside from the
>>> snipes, the arguments they present aren't demented imo.
>>
>>
>> You think running around calling people "killer" at every opportunity
>> is not demented?
>
>
> No, but it's amusing.
No it's abusive. And your put downs of everyone. You don't discuss the
merits of issues, you insult. You treatment of woman is also subject to
analysis.
>
>> I have an issue with your standards.
>
>
> I have issues with yours, "vegan."
>
>> I think you contradict yourself:
>
>
> I shouldn't defend Joe, especially considering what he wrote about me,
> but he didn't contradict himself. He didn't accuse me of being demented,
> nor did he suggest as much.
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| usual suspect |
gottits@ron.does wrote:
> two different boobs IMHO.
Speaking of boobs... how big are yours, soy boy?
Male infants experience a testosterone surge during the first
few months of life and produce androgens in amounts equal to
those of adult men. So much testosterone at such a tender age is
needed to program the body for puberty, the time when a male's
sex organs should develop and he should begin to express male
characteristics such as facial and pubic hair and a deep voice.
If receptor sites intended for the hormone testosterone are
occupied by soy estrogens, however, appropriate development may
never take place. To date, most of the evidence damning soy
formula can be found only in animal studies, because
investigations in which humans' sex hormone levels are lowered
experimentally cannot ethically be done. However, in the years
since soy formula has been in the marketplace, parents and
pediatricians have reported growing numbers of boys whose
physical maturation is either delayed or does not occur at all.
Breasts, underdeveloped gonads, undescended testicles
(cryptorchidism), and steroid insufficiencies are increasingly
common. Sperm counts are also falling.
http://www.mothering.com/articles/g.../soy_story.html
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| usual suspect |
tracym@askme.net stupidly boasted:
<...>
> There's the rub: I am LESS of a killer than you are
I admire your honesty, Tracy, but thinking of yourself as "less of a
killer" doesn't make you "more ethical." Scott Peterson is "less of a
killer" than Jeffrey Dahmer and John Wayne Gacy were, but it doesn't
make Peterson more respectable, more ethical, more admirable, or
anything but a killer.
You're in the same boat with everyone else when it comes to killing
animals. You're just as culpable for the deaths of mice, frogs, birds,
snakes, deer, and rabbits from your own diet as anyone else can be for
the chickens or cattle they eat.
> and I am LESS of a **** factory than you are too. :)
You're certainly entitled to your own opinion about such matters, but
your **** stinks just as much as anyone else's.
<snip retarded comment about baby bottles>
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| usual suspect |
Joe wrote:
> Actually I just meant my point in general of 'a typical american diet'
> irregardless
*REGARDLESS*.
I've seen you repeatedly make this error.
The -less suffix means WITHOUT; adding the ir- prefix also means
WITHOUT. The result of using both is a double negative -- "without
without regard." Just use "regardless."
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| usual suspect |
Joe wrote:
>>Speaking of boobs... how big are yours, soy boy?
>>
>> Male infants experience a testosterone surge during the first
>> few months of life and produce androgens in amounts equal to
>> those of adult men. So much testosterone at such a tender age is
>> needed to program the body for puberty, the time when a male's
>> sex organs should develop and he should begin to express male
>> characteristics such as facial and pubic hair and a deep voice.
>> If receptor sites intended for the hormone testosterone are
>> occupied by soy estrogens, however, appropriate development may
>> never take place. To date, most of the evidence damning soy
>> formula can be found only in animal studies, because
>> investigations in which humans' sex hormone levels are lowered
>> experimentally cannot ethically be done. However, in the years
>> since soy formula has been in the marketplace, parents and
>> pediatricians have reported growing numbers of boys whose
>> physical maturation is either delayed or does not occur at all.
>> Breasts, underdeveloped gonads, undescended testicles
>> (cryptorchidism), and steroid insufficiencies are increasingly
>> common. Sperm counts are also falling.
>> http://www.mothering.com/articles/g.../soy_story.html
>
> This too, related somwhat. Extensive tofu intake may be a problem also
> in the long run regarding the developement of brain debilitating
> diseases. So eat it conservatively.
> http://www.soyonlineservice.co.nz/articles/SSP1.htm
I don't find studies performed on isolated groups of elderly men very
convincing. There are too many variables, and age is a known risk factor
for dementia.
> However, regarding men's 'bust size', I'm not convinced it's the soy
> itself as the cause [and this doesn't mean I brush off all the
> discovered/claimed dangers of soy].
I'm more convinced of it than I am of the link between it and dementia.
> Do we see the Far East male
> population as a whole having a reputation for being 'booby' given the
> amount of soy/tofu products in their diet?
Westerners eat more soy per capita than Asians do; Asians are far more
likely to consume fermented soy products than unfermented. From your
link above:
...Dr. Larrian Gillespie, MD says, “I was recently in China and
saw how little soy is used in the daily diet of the Chinese. We
in America think we must consume the entire container of tofu in
one or two days, when that is enough for a whole week!”
A review of an anti-soy book notes that its author also found
substantially lower rates of soy consumption in Asia:
Daniel cites various sources that show consumption of soy in
Asia to be surprisingly low: the OECD estimates the per capita
consumption of soybeans in Japan averages a mere 18g per day,
while the famous China-Cornell-Oxford Study revealed an average
soy consumption of only four grams daily.
http://www.theomnivore.com/Whole_Soy_Story_BR.html
As to the possible effects of soy on children, especially infants,
consider the following:
A vegetarian diet could be responsible for genital defects in
baby boys, according to BBC-funded research carried out by
scientists in Bristol.
Researchers found that boys born to vegetarian mums are five
times more likely to suffer from hypospadias, a condition that
effects the male urethra....
They believe that a vegetarian diet alone is unlikely to cause
hypospadias. But they think vegetarians are probably eating more
of something is to blame - soya is a suspect.
According to the researchers, the defect may be caused by crop
pesticides or naturally occurring chemicals called
phytoestrogens.
Phytoestrogens are generally thought to be behind hormonal
imbalances leading to defects.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/286265.stm
Infants and small children don't need to be pumped full of hormones like
estrogens, whether they're from plant or chemical sources.
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| usual suspect |
Joe wrote:
>>>>Speaking of boobs... how big are yours, soy boy?
>>>>
>>>> Male infants experience a testosterone surge during the first
>>>> few months of life and produce androgens in amounts equal to
>>>> those of adult men. So much testosterone at such a tender age is
>>>> needed to program the body for puberty, the time when a male's
>>>> sex organs should develop and he should begin to express male
>>>> characteristics such as facial and pubic hair and a deep voice.
>>>> If receptor sites intended for the hormone testosterone are
>>>> occupied by soy estrogens, however, appropriate development may
>>>> never take place. To date, most of the evidence damning soy
>>>> formula can be found only in animal studies, because
>>>> investigations in which humans' sex hormone levels are lowered
>>>> experimentally cannot ethically be done. However, in the years
>>>> since soy formula has been in the marketplace, parents and
>>>> pediatricians have reported growing numbers of boys whose
>>>> physical maturation is either delayed or does not occur at all.
>>>> Breasts, underdeveloped gonads, undescended testicles
>>>> (cryptorchidism), and steroid insufficiencies are increasingly
>>>> common. Sperm counts are also falling.
>>>> http://www.mothering.com/articles/g.../soy_story.html
>>>
>>>This too, related somwhat. Extensive tofu intake may be a problem also
>>>in the long run regarding the developement of brain debilitating
>>>diseases. So eat it conservatively.
>>>http://www.soyonlineservice.co.nz/articles/SSP1.htm
>>
>>I don't find studies performed on isolated groups of elderly men very
>>convincing. There are too many variables, and age is a known risk factor
>>for dementia.
>
> Yes, but what drew me too it in particular was the length of time
> involved.
Dementia usually takes a long time to develop; human gestation is only
nine months. I think the potential risks to infants and young children
are much more worthy of concern.
>>A review of an anti-soy book notes that its author also found
>>substantially lower rates of soy consumption in Asia:
>> Daniel cites various sources that show consumption of soy in
>> Asia to be surprisingly low: the OECD estimates the per capita
>> consumption of soybeans in Japan averages a mere 18g per day,
>> while the famous China-Cornell-Oxford Study revealed an average
>> soy consumption of only four grams daily.
>> http://www.theomnivore.com/Whole_Soy_Story_BR.html
>>
>>As to the possible effects of soy on children, especially infants,
>>consider the following:
>> A vegetarian diet could be responsible for genital defects in
>> baby boys, according to BBC-funded research carried out by
>> scientists in Bristol.
>>
>> Researchers found that boys born to vegetarian mums are five
>> times more likely to suffer from hypospadias, a condition that
>> effects the male urethra....
>>
>> They believe that a vegetarian diet alone is unlikely to cause
>> hypospadias. But they think vegetarians are probably eating more
>> of something is to blame - soya is a suspect.
>>
>> According to the researchers, the defect may be caused by crop
>> pesticides or naturally occurring chemicals called
>> phytoestrogens.
>>
>> Phytoestrogens are generally thought to be behind hormonal
>> imbalances leading to defects.
>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/286265.stm
>>
>>Infants and small children don't need to be pumped full of hormones like
>>estrogens, whether they're from plant or chemical sources.
>
> Once again...., thanks for the excellent info / links provided !
You're welcome.
> Unfortunately I got Rick's prior answer half a day too late when upon
> mentioning in a conversation the hazards related to eating soy
> products, I got asked by a friend the very same question I placed in
> this thread about soy comsumption differences East/West. But now I
> know.
I think we need more studies on the issue to see how safe or deleterious
soy consumption is at various stages of life before assuming it's
entirely "good" or "bad." It may be perfectly fine and healthful in
moderation, just like everything else.
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